The Thief went to the Third Heaven

[_Albion]

You will notice, gedemetz, I did not quote any scripture but it is important to understand the culture and knowledge of the time in understanding many scriptures. If I may use PrickKicker's posting name which I assume is taken from the admonition given to Saul/Paul in his encounter with the Lord in the road to Damascus. If our mechanized society had no understanding of the culture of Saul's day being warned not to "kick against the pricks" would have little meaning. By understanding the culture, we understand the reference and thus we understand the point being made. The simple understanding of earth, sky and the starry heavens made Paul's statement perfectly clear to those of his day.

[_ldsfaqs]

The Thief went to the Third Heaven

What does it mean when the Bible refers to the Third Heaven?
At the time of ancient Israel they did not have as complete an understanding of the universe as we do today. So they wrote in terms with which they were familiar. The Jews spoke of three heavens. The first heaven consisted of the the earth atmosphere where the clouds and birds were. The second heaven was where the sun, stars, and moon was. The third heaven was the dwelling place of God. When Paul said he was caught up to the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2), he was referring to the very dwelling place of God.

Uh Mittens.....

God DOES dwell in the "third Heaven". It's called the Celestial Kingdom.

Further, if you actually knew LDS Theology, you would know that it matches perfectly with the above comment.

Telestial = Earth
Terrestrial = Stars
Celestial = Sun / a.k.a. God's dwelling place

Sure, we liken the "brightness" and Glory of the "Kingdoms" of Heaven (note the singular???) to that of the Sun, Moon, & Stars, but LDS theology calls the Earth in it's current state "Telestial".

During the Millennium it will be a Terrestrial earth, and then eventually it will be "Celestialized".
All Bible....

Anyway, when we say there are "three Heavens", we are saying 3 Kingdoms within the Kingdom of Heaven. Sorry, nothing contrary here. Even if the Paul statement wasn't "specifically" referring to the third kingdom (thus it may or may not be an evidence of 3 heavens), the fact is is that 1 Cor. makes absolutely clear that there are 3 different glorys within heaven.

The other problem you still haven't delt with is the "Extra-Biblical" literature from which the Apostles, Christ and other prophets quote from which DOES still exist, which also mentions 3 heavens.

What's worse is they also mention "7 Heavens" (which is also consistent to LDS thought which I won't get into here) which if you were being consistent when you quote some Jewish scholarship is a subject they also would say is true.

Jesus himself also spoke of “many mansions” or kingdoms (John 14:2)

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Pay attention to the wording..... "prepare a PLACE for you"....!!!!

[_Albion]

I wonder why the Bible doesn't use the term "telestial"? Could it be that it came right our of the imagination of Joseph Smith...a simple joining of parts of Celestial and Terrestrial? If Paul was really talking about three heavens in Corinthians why wouldn't he make himself clear and include the name of the third one? He didn't name it because he was not talking about three heavens but clearly giving an example of how, as the moon, sun and stars vary in glory, so the resurrected body will differ from the earthly one. Context is not a strong point of the false gospel of Mormonism.

[_ldsfaqs]

I wonder why the Bible doesn't use the term "telestial"? Could it be that it came right our of the imagination of Joseph Smith...a simple joining of parts of Celestial and Terrestrial? If Paul was really talking about three heavens in Corinthians why wouldn't he make himself clear and include the name of the third one? He didn't name it because he was not talking about three heavens but clearly giving an example of how, as the moon, sun and stars vary in glory, so the resurrected body will differ from the earthly one. Context is not a strong point of the false gospel of Mormonism.

Ignoring of the "Telestial" comment.... (God can do what he wants)

How is "context" an issue? That's exactly what Mormonism teaches, that our "GLORY" will be different from each other, and per the context of the chapter, he was talking about death and resurrection, the after life.

God has simply "filled in the holes".... We aren't contradicting anything the scripture states!!!???

Further, your "context" claim in general is a false one. I spent years in multiples of your religions, and NONE fit fully and accurately what the Bible actually said in everything it says. When I came upon Mormonism it was the ONLY religion that actually perfectly matched what the Bible in full taught.

You shouldn't confuse your "box" of what you are taught the Bible says from your man-made self proclaimed "prophets" religions with what the Bible actually says. I was able to see it easy because of my experience with reading the book for myself and comparing what the various religions taught. You, you swallow the Kool-Aid as if that's the actual truth of the Bible.

[_Albion]

Actually, the context of the passage is a contrast between the earthly body and the resurrected body. It isn't about heaven as such, one or three, at all. Smith was nothing if not opportunistic in his creations.

[_gdemetz]

Why wouldn't he, Mittens? Don't you think, being a thief, that perhaps he was not ready as Paul to have such glorious views? Albion, you are just giving false man made doctrine that is contrary to what the prophets have taught as well as the scriptures! Show me a quote from a true prophet or the scriptures that will back up this false doctrine! The third heaven is for the very righteous, and it is not the same as paradise or the spirit prison.

[_Drifting]

Why wouldn't he, Mittens? Don't you think, being a thief, that perhaps he was not ready as Paul to have such glorious views? Albion, you are just giving false man made doctrine that is contrary to what the prophets have taught as well as the scriptures! Show me a quote from a true prophet or the scriptures that will back up this false doctrine! The third heaven is for the very righteous, and it is not the same as paradise or the spirit prison.

How do you know Paul wasn't a thief? Just because he didn't get caught...

[_gdemetz]

Drifting, it has been asked on this site what you actually believe, and to this date I have no idea. However, I don't believe many Christians would believe that Paul was a thief, and that Christ would give hin such glorious views if he were one!

[_Drifting]

Drifting, it has been asked on this site what you actually believe, and to this date I have no idea. However, I don't believe many Christians would believe that Paul was a thief, and that Christ would give hin such glorious views if he were one!

If only you'd read the thread "Drifting, what he does/does not believe..."

Well let's see. There's no evidence of horses during Book of Mormon times yet you are to believe they existed. Yet when faced with the possibility of Paul being a thief you use lack of evidence as reason not to believe...Quite contrary.

[_Albion]

We, gdemetz, since no one in scriptures teaches anything about a third heaven ( Paul only makes mention of the term in passing which would have been clearly understood within his culture) I assume the "prophets" you are referring to are those claimed by Mormonism and you know what I think of those.