Themis wrote:Yet no where do you mention it, and the whole discussion was referring to Joseph seer stones. Justme's question specifically asked you about the magic stones and sticks. I'm not the one with a reading problem here.
This is a Mormon discussion forum. It is commonly known (or should be known) that Joseph Smith used the U & T in the translation process (the rock in the hat); hence my comment specifically mentioning that these devices were used in ancient times by people wearing a veil. At some point I have to assume I'm not addressing someone that is completely lacking in any understanding or knowledge about this topic. Clearly, in your case, I won't make that assumption. Just to be clear - I was speaking about the U & T. Now, you should be able to understand what I was speaking to Dcharle about.
It's good to be clear, but even with him you specifically refer to the stone. Later you get asked how they are an advanced device. I think you are just doing your usual move the goal post to I was really referring to the U & T. Not a big deal, but just me has a good question. Do you think the stone or divining rod are advanced devices?
Themis wrote:It's good to be clear, but even with him you specifically refer to the stone. Later you get asked how they are an advanced device. I think you are just doing your usual move the goal post to I was really referring to the U & T. Not a big deal, but just me has a good question. Do you think the stone or divining rod are advanced devices?
Your claim that I have "moved the goal posts" is just another absurd assertion by you. My comments about people using these devices in ancient times were made before you questioned what I said in the discussion and a direct response to Dcharle's OP.
The U&T is as much a simple rock or stick as a gas combustion engine is a lump of ore.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Mktavish wrote:In my experience you don't need veil or stones. But I have had my experiences with magic stones and magic articles of clothing. These all hinge on ones level of faith in them. Much like Voodoo
Hardly. You use devices all the time and they are not based on magic or voodoo. Just because God gives men advanced devices to use, you presume it is magic. I'm sure a TV or an iPad would seem like magic to a caveman too, that does not make it so. You really seem to have a very primitive view of the world.
What advanced devices (plural) has god given humans?
See, Oliver Cowdery had a divining rod. That's a stick. Was that an advanced device from god? They were also used in ancient times, as seen in the Old Testament.
Joseph Smith used a stone (found on the ground) to "see" with. A seer stone. Was that an advanced device from god?
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Mktavish wrote:I have first hand knowledge dealing with magic stones ... do you?
No, I have Joseph Smith's accounts and what he told us about such devices and their ancient use. I would suppose if anyone would know about such things, it would probably be someone that has actually used them.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote: The U&T is as much a simple rock or stick as a gas combustion engine is a lump of ore.
How about the seer stone that people were talking about?
The U&T ARE seer stones. You are being incredibly stupid tonight.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:No, I have Joseph Smith's accounts and what he told us about such devices and their ancient use. I would suppose if anyone would know about such things, it would probably be someone that has actually used them.
Well I suggest you get some first hand knowledge on magic rocks. Untill you do , you have no basis to tell people about them.
Its one thing to accept anothers knowledge on it , its clearly another to pass that knowledge on without haveing an understanding. Almost as if your just a peice of rubber boing
Of course I have a basis to discuss it. I can use the accounts that were written by people knowledgable about them. Your position that since I have never used them myself, I have no ability to discuss them is obviously silly. I haven't been to the moon. Is that topic off limits? How about Mars? I haven't been there either. Your premise that someone has to have first-hand experience or knowledge of something (and can not learn through other sources) is ludicrous. I can't even take such an argument seriously.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
boing 