Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Aristotle Smith]

--

[Res Ipsa]

That’s the way I read it, but I’m guessing that’s an issue addressed in the case law.

Well, you obviously know a lot more about how these things work than I do. In any case, the law at the time did not apply to an organization of Open Stories Foundation's size.

Not that much more. I'm having to read up on it just like the rest of folks. And, yes, when we talk about the law, it's all hypothetical.

[Kishkumen]

I think KK may have purposefully stirred this up or latched onto it cause she wants Dehlin tarnished and damaged. I doubt Dehlin will suffer greatly, no matter how much he may deserve to. Rosebud has no bombshell, and if she engages I really think she will come out worse for it. JP and KK are going to enable her self destruction. I don’t think KK will lose any sleep over Rosebud, as she is just using Rosebud to attack Dehlin.

A friend of the board has suggested to me that KK got angry when one of Dehlin's guests poked fun at KK's GoFundMe request for money to replace her laptop. Maybe Dehlin chuckled about it? Maybe he let it slide? I don't know the details. It was a risky move on KK's part. Nothing wrong with it that I can see, but it was definitely the kind of thing that others might pick on. Probably really bugged KK that she made this ask, when JD has asked for all kinds of help from his listeners, including money to fly places, etc., and yet here she is being held to this higher standard. How is that fair?

I agree with her that it wasn't fair, not that I liked JD's pleas for money to fly places, etc. People should be held to the same standard, and perhaps John, had he been thinking on his feet (not necessarily his strong suit), might have defended KK's decision to make that request.

But, really, now it has become KK's attack on the dragon of the Patriarchy as represented by JD the ex-Mo male prophet. There is a fair amount of resentment out there that so many people gravitate toward the men, and it seems to be a simple recreation of life in the LDS Church. One might counter with the examples of Gina Colvin and Natasha Helfer, not to mention Sandra Tanner, Margaret Toscano, Janice Allred, Lavina Fielding Anderson, and all of the other towering women heroes to come out of the LDS Church, or, in the case of Maxine Hanks, to return to the LDS Church.

Still she kinda has a point.

Also I agree Dehlin may lose some credibility but to compare him to someone saying god revealed things to me and commanded things or called this guy to be ward scout leader who turned out to be a pedophile is really stretching it. Rosebud’s are the only credible claims other than JD might be a toxic person to work with, I am not aware of JD or Open Stories Foundation ever protecting a pedophile, I know of many bishops that have.

The last Mormon Stories I can recall listening to (besides the RFM crossover with Ritner) is with Christine Jeppsen Clark and what she revealed about her dad and Packer and one of the September Six is independent of Dehlin’s character.

Like you, I am not sure what kind of credibility it takes to provide people interviews where they are allowed to dish the information they want to share. I am listening to what those people have to say, not John really. I started disagreeing with John a long time ago. I don't hold it against him. I just have a different view of things. To turn that into some kind of symbolic crusade is really silly. Yeah, too bad someone else didn't do Mormon Stories?

Whatever.

[Dwight]

A friend of the board has suggested to me that KK got angry when one of Dehlin's guests poked fun at KK's GoFundMe request for money to replace her laptop. Maybe Dehlin chuckled about it? Maybe he let it slide? I don't know the details. It was a risky move on KK's part. Nothing wrong with it that I can see, but it was definitely the kind of thing that others might pick on. Probably really bugged KK that she made this ask, when JD has asked for all kinds of help from his listeners, including money to fly places, etc., and yet here she is being held to this higher standard. How is that fair?

I agree with her that it wasn't fair, not that I liked JD's pleas for money to fly places, etc. People should be held to the same standard, and perhaps John, had he been thinking on his feet (not necessarily his strong suit), might have defended KK's decision to make that request.

But, really, now it has become KK's attack on the dragon of the Patriarchy as represented by JD the ex-Mo male prophet. There is a fair amount of resentment out there that so many people gravitate toward the men, and it seems to be a simple recreation of life in the LDS Church. One might counter with the examples of Gina Colvin and Natasha Helfer, not to mention Sandra Tanner, Margaret Toscano, Janice Allred, Lavina Fielding Anderson, and all of the other towering women heroes to come out of the LDS Church, or, in the case of Maxine Hanks, to return to the LDS Church.

Still she kinda has a point.

I remember when it got mocked in exmo Reddit. There were people that offered to send her an old laptop and they would pay shipping and everything (customs) and she turned it down that it was important for her work to have a new MacBook Air. Now I am a Mac guy and I can get wanting to stick with it cause it is what she had and was used to. However I think someone else offered like the year’s before model and that was also turned down and she kind of had a melt down that people weren’t understanding her that the ox in the mire wasn’t really an ox in the mire. John has been unapologetically bold in that donations pay his salary so he can do this full-time and the implication is he will go to the movies, buy an iPhone and go on vacation with that money. In her mind I think she was asking for a pittance in comparison, but I recall her wording rubbed me the wrong way especially after she turned down a slightly used Mac. Did Ordain Women take significant time from her 9-to-5? I don’t think so. She has some sort of explanation about it now that I heard summarized that would’ve gone over a lot better if she had just been upfront.

[jpatterson]

One very easy rule, however, is don't have an emotional and or sexual affair with subordinates. There is no excuse for Dehlin having violated this rule, and his responsibility in all this cannot be overlooked. I have my own opinions about Rosebud, but the instability of the victim before, during, and after the fact doesn't retroactively make any of Dehlin's behavior excusable.

The reason it has been overlooked, over and over and over again is worth sitting with for a minute or two.

It's easy to take the person out of the church. It's a whole lot harder to take the church out of the person. The patriarchy lives.

[consiglieri]

https://share.transistor.fm/s/07e76f1b? ... 9K32HHCYmI

Looks like Rosebud released her recording from three years ago.

It clocks in at over three hours.

Thanks to Dr. Moore for locating it!

[jpatterson]

"I was like no, don't come in my room. I was sleeping in this children's bedroom in a twin size bed and the lights are off. And again, his hands are under my blankets groping me. And this time I just push him off and I say 'Go away.'"

"There are people who would say that is assault, because I said don't come in my room and then he came into my room and he was groping me soon after I said don't come in my room. And soon after, I said to myself, what was the difference between that and what happened in Houston, when I said 'Don't come in my room' and he came? Well, the difference is in Houston I consented. And in March, I didn't consent. From his perspective, he's doing the same thing. He's coming to the room after I say no and he's getting me to consent. What's really changed here is me in not giving consent. I'm not here to talk about what the definition of assault is and is not. Just, these are the nuances. That occurred in March (of 2012)."

[Jersey Girl]

https://share.transistor.fm/s/07e76f1b? ... 9K32HHCYmI

Looks like Rosebud released her recording from three years ago.

It clocks in at over three hours.

Thanks to Dr. Moore for locating it!

Is this going to creep me out?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

@138 minutes - Rosebud states she’s owes JD and the Open Stories Foundation $350,000 (at least back in 2018). o-O

- Doc

[Lem]

https://share.transistor.fm/s/07e76f1b? ... 9K32HHCYmI

Looks like Rosebud released her recording from three years ago.

It clocks in at over three hours.

Thanks to Dr. Moore for locating it!

She said she was posting it without listening to it. Three hours? This will not go well. Any chance there's a transcript?

Eta: I see pple are posting notes, thank you.