Anti-Mormon?

[_subgenius]

Sub,

Let's take some of the evangelist that show up at the Manti Mormon Pageant. I assume you would consider them anti-mormon. And yet I've watched videos on their preparations for those types of activities that show they believe they are on a mission of their own, one of love and compassion to "save" their Mormon brothers and sisters from what the evangelist perceive as a great evil and condemner of the Mormon souls.

Much like the intent of Mormon Missionaries, to bring conversion of those they interact with from their worldview into the joy of the Mormon Gospel.

In this example, it is the Mormons that feel they are being discriminated, persecuted, under attack and being abused, when the original intent is just the opposite, one of love and a desire for the betterment of the individual - as perceived by the evangelist.

Mormons sure do seem to get all caught up in the need for feeling persecuted all the time. It does get old. And yet you are crying about the exact same thing that your missionaries inflict on others ... door to door, day in and day out.

So, when this guy is yelling "You are going to hell" he does it with love?
Interesting argument, but i am not yet convinced...mainly because Tough Love seems to not be in order here, and that most people realize it only promotes fear in those you are trying to help.
nevertheless...i still do not quite understand what the motivation is...i mean missionaries surely justify going door to door because they are motivated by love...but when someone denies their invitation, that same love does not suddenly prompt them to yell "you are going to hell", then after a spirited ward council meeting a protest is readied for that front lawn.
I appreciate what you are aiming at, but i think you may have missed the mark.
Are you saying that Mormons must not experience that "desire for the betterment of the individual" since we do not see them routinely protesting at a Baptist pageant, or outside a Catholic church during Lent, etc..?

[_RockSlider]

Are you saying that Mormons must not experience that "desire for the betterment of the individual" since we do not see them routinely protesting at a Baptist pageant, or outside a Catholic church during Lent, etc..?

Of course not, I have only suggested, that in many cases the "intent" is the same on both sides (a desire for the other side to enjoy what you perceive is right).

I've been labeled anti-mormon by my loving wife of 30+ years. The delivery of my intended message to my wife and grown children has to be very measured and timed, as it always evokes a super defensive response as they feel threatened, abused, attacked, and persecuted by none other than their loving spouse and father, yes the anti-mormon true to your definition.

And what is my hateful and abusive message to them? To drop a bit of Church reality on them from time to time, to say; hey don't just follow as sheep, the correlated Gospel you are being feed, always ignoring the man behind the curtain pulling the levers of a huge corporation which fronts as a religion.

What is my intention? That they do waste all of their lives in a cult like stupor to a church I believe has fallen far from its stated purpose. They are my wife, children and grandchildren, I love them and do not want to see them hurt.

[_subgenius]

Are you saying that Mormons must not experience that "desire for the betterment of the individual" since we do not see them routinely protesting at a Baptist pageant, or outside a Catholic church during Lent, etc..?

Of course not, I have only suggested, that in many cases the "intent" is the same on both sides (a desire for the other side to enjoy what you perceive is right).

yes, i understand your position, but that has yet to justify why one side clearly expresses this "same intent" in such a dramatic difference than the other...and this is not a difference that is perceptive to either side, but is readily apparent to any 3rd party. As has been already illustrated.

What is my intention? That they do waste all of their lives in a cult like stupor to a church I believe has fallen far from its stated purpose. They are my wife, children and grandchildren, I love them and do not want to see them hurt.

but given your previous position about "perception" how can they be hurt? are you not the one trying to get them to "perceive" something potentially hurtful to them? why are you so confident now that "your side" has the perception that should triumph? why suddenly are your actions even necessary?
in other words, given what you say above, why are you even bothering? If they have the same perception about you then what is the point?

[_RockSlider]

in other words, given what you say above, why are you even bothering? If they have the same perception about you then what is the point?

In the midst of a TBM family, and because of your above point, my viewpoints are shared infrequently ... why then at all? Baby steps ... planting of seeds.

But what is unfortunate in the first place is that any open discussion, with both sides sharing their points of view is never possible. It's always the "get ye hence Satan" knee jerk defensive response to the attack against their Church (not their beliefs, their Church!)

Of course, since I'm now apostate, I've somehow lost all understanding of their viewpoint, of which I fully embraced for many moons.

[_subgenius]

in other words, given what you say above, why are you even bothering? If they have the same perception about you then what is the point?

In the midst of a TBM family, and because of your above point, my viewpoints are shared infrequently ... why then at all? Baby steps ... planting of seeds.

But what is unfortunate in the first place is that any open discussion, with both sides sharing their points of view is never possible. It's always the "get ye hence Satan" knee jerk defensive response to the attack against their Church (not their beliefs, their Church!)

Of course, since I'm now apostate, I've somehow lost all understanding of their viewpoint, of which I fully embraced for many moons.

except you obviously still share the same viewpoint of "planting seeds"

which is what i am asking about...what is your motivation for planting these seeds? what is it that you hope to reap?
And given that your "seeds" are falling into what you consider to be infertile ground, how can you reasonably assume anything will grow?
Seems like your faith may greater than most....ironically

[Guest]

...

[_Themis]

And I was hopeing this would all come to the conclusion I see ... and that is exactly what subby said here with planting seeds ... or formally known as "Indoctrination"

For we do not change our method of seeking a higher existence of humanity , we only change the subject for wich we view as ~Evil~

I agree, which is why people like subby will see their planting of seeds as good, but others as evil. Not unlike those who believe in Scientology, or FLDS, etc.

[_Alfredo]

what motivates a person(s) to behave in such a manner? Is it an act of revenge? of atonement? of immaturity? is it part of some sort of quasi-healing process? is it biological? psychological? egotistical?

The answer to your question is the same thing anyone wants when they do something: good things.

But you've drawn different sorts of boundaries... according to your paradigm, good things can only come from good magic.

except you obviously still share the same viewpoint of "planting seeds"

which is what i am asking about...what is your motivation for planting these seeds? what is it that you hope to reap?
And given that your "seeds" are falling into what you consider to be infertile ground, how can you reasonably assume anything will grow?
Seems like your faith may greater than most....ironically

So, is it safe to consider this thread to really be just a play to prove that anti-mormons have no defensible foundation for deriving good things from bad magic...?

Let's ignore the fact that you only offer this argument because you believe anything antimormon can't be involved with the good magic (the only source of good intentions/things grown from "seeds" and such), so it must be involved with the bad magic (also explaining why you're even confident enough to try and make this point)...

[_subgenius]

what motivates a person(s) to behave in such a manner? Is it an act of revenge? of atonement? of immaturity? is it part of some sort of quasi-healing process? is it biological? psychological? egotistical?

The answer to your question is the same thing anyone wants when they do something: good things.

But you've drawn different sorts of boundaries... according to your paradigm, good things can only come from good magic.

except you obviously still share the same viewpoint of "planting seeds"

which is what i am asking about...what is your motivation for planting these seeds? what is it that you hope to reap?
And given that your "seeds" are falling into what you consider to be infertile ground, how can you reasonably assume anything will grow?
Seems like your faith may greater than most....ironically

So, is it safe to consider this thread to really be just a play to prove that anti-mormons have no defensible foundation for deriving good things from bad magic...?

Let's ignore the fact that you only offer this argument because you believe anything antimormon can't be involved with the good magic (the only source of good intentions/things grown from "seeds" and such), so it must be involved with the bad magic (also explaining why you're even confident enough to try and make this point)...

not true...my OP is quite clear, perhaps you should read it...this time out loud if you read once before.
Given a person who is an Anti-Mormon with the definition for Anti, as it applies as a prefix to 'Mormon', there are certain inescapable attributes for that person.
my question "What motivates a person to actively be Anti-Mormon?" is quite different than what motivates a person to be Pro-Mormon, or Pro-Atheist, etc..
This is why you will find that a true atheist is amoral - not really concerned about morality for he/she can not offer no justification for such a concept - i disagree with that position but respect the atheist that is that honest.
Nevertheless,
Anti, per the OP, has a significant implication for the discussion of motive here....and that has yet to be responded to.

[Guest]

...