Brad Hudson wrote:LittleNipper wrote:
If Christianity were harmful to children, the 1940's /1950's in the United States would not have been the culture that inspired "Leave It to Beaver," "I Love Lucy," and "The Andy Griffin Show." When I was ten I hopped my bike and rode to the A&P to buy a loaf of bread, and my only fear was the bully down the street. There was no nagging thoughts of attacks by perverts who never matured beyond the age of puberty and whose only drive was sick sex and the "governmental" sanction of an impossible marriage between two men. I cannot excercise my beliefs freely, if I must hide them. We were given freedom of religion. No where in the Consitution is there any mention that people are to be protected from others who practise beliefs other might disagree with. However, one then can compare and contrast beliefs and superstition would be forgotten but not eliminated by governmental intrusion into the natural learning process. But what happened is that Atheists had the Bible reading removed so that their secular beliefs would not have compitition. In the late 1950's my dad parked his car in Camden, New Jersey so that the family could take the EL/subway into Center City Philadelphia to see Santa. There were no X-rated posters along the Blvd. No, worry that thugs would steal the car or flatten the tires. No worry of being robbed or shot. But then, how should people act who live in perpetual dispare...
Whoa! Go back and quote the part of what I wrote where I said Christianity is harmful to children. That's not what I wrote. I do think there is a reasonable argument to the effect that teaching children things that are false is inherently harmful. But I'm ambivalent about that one. There's also a reasonable argument that scaring children with the threat of burning in hell (not sure if you are that flavor of Christian) is harmful. Or teaching them to hate gays, etc. (ditto)
My argument is based on freedom from the government using its powers to indoctrinate my children in any religious tradition. It is you who demand a special right to use the power of government to indoctrinate children in your religious tradition.
And the notion of you having to hide your beliefs is just nonsense. It's what born agains use to whip themselves up into a persecution complex. Never in the history of history have you been more free to proclaim your religion. Any born again with access to a computer can testify to the entire world about her beliefs. Christians own radio stations and TV stations devoted exclusively to promoting their religion. Every morning at my local high school, Christian students gather at the flagpole to pray. Every week at my local middle school, Young Life members stand at the mouth of the school driveway and hand out flyers. The notion of "having to hide" your belief is sheer nonsense.
Bible reading eliminated? Are you trying to tell me that a student at a public school can't carry and read a Bible during school hours? What I'm saying you have no right to do is use the power of government to promote your (or anyone else's) religious tradition.
Please answer me this. If Mormons got control of your local school board, would you accept having each class start with a reading from the Book of Mormon? If Muslims did the same, would you accept a similar reading of the Koran? If atheists did the same, would you accept such readings from The God Delusion?
As for the rest, you again mistake some kind of correlation for causation. The notion that a daily prayer in a school or reading from the Bible or posting the 10 commandments on school walls would have any effect on the larger societal trends you cite is simply wishful thinking.
by the way, Leave it to Beaver is a TV show. If you think that rape and child abuse didn't occur in your ideal world of the /50s, you need to get out more.
But the Government can teach children that homosexuality is equally a correct lifestyle and that evolution and the Big Bang theories are facts. The government can teach students that global warming is a fact the government can control. The government can allow schools to have Winter parties and recess but not CHRISTmas Parties, CHRISTmas vacation or Easter Vacation?
by the way, I know that Leave it To Beaver is a TV show. Do you realize that "Family Guy" is a cartoon? Cartoons were something kids of the 50's watched. Though my parents watched "The Flintstones," Friday nights with me when I was a kid. And yes rape and child abuse did happen, but not everyday everywhere (spankings not counted). And no one back then imaged it did. The same cannot be said for today.
You might be suprised to read the following. The event happened in 1949 in Camden, New Jersey and shocked the entire nation. Such never happened before. America's first single-episode mass murderer.
NOW such is common and shootings take place in Camden every night, but never in 1949... Please see:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/noto ... index.htmlI was not born yet in 1949; however, I was a little boy in 1959 when the papers did a Anniversary spread on this terrible event and I heard my parents and the neighbors talking about it. You see, in 1959, such a thing was still very unbelievable. People just didn't do such things...
So tell me, what exactly is different now since the mid 60's. What was different to make such events unheard of in 1949? Could it be a defiance of God? People today might call themselves "Christian," but are they really? Or do most people only attend church once a year to hear Christmas music bringing back fond memories of long ago? I believe God is telling us that we have forgotten Him, but people are far too into themselves to get it.
. The simple conclusion is that with every supposed ancestor of a fully developed complex organism supposed connection comes as simply another very complex organism that must have developed from another very complex organism. This runs into a wall that millions of years fail to provide ---------------- enough time.