Albion wrote:Christ bore the sins of the world on the cross. "And he himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by his wounds you (believers) were healed." 1 Peter 2:24 See also Ephesians 2:16 and Col.1:20 There is no Biblical evidence whatsoever that the atonement took place in the Garden of Gethsemane.
This argument seems baron of many aspects. In 1 Peter 2:24, the KJV indicates that Peter used the word tree - not cross. Paul does use the word "cross". Now, Jesus also used the word "cross" for anyone who would follow Him:
Matthew 16:24 (KJV)
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Jesus, whom it is we are talking about, was speaking figuratively. The word "cross" points to exposing yourself to death, or self-denial. Jesus was not teaching us to literally pick-up wooden beams fashioned in the shape of a cross; nor was He teaching us we needed to die nailed to a cross.
It was hanging on a "cross" where Jesus' physical body died; where He even proclaims that "it is finished" in speaking about the necessity of His physical death. If there had been another form of capital punishment used to end Jesus' physical life, then that is where He would have proclaimed "it is finished". For instance, if beheading was the form of causing His death, I suppose the symbol used to designate that a person follows Christ might be a sword. And the crucifix would be a sword with the image of Christ's head hanging on the end of it.
Would any of this change the fact that Christ's physical death had taken place? It is His actual suffering physical death which was necessary so that He could overcome the effects of physical death and defeat its hold over mankind. His entire life in the flesh prepared Him to be the perfect sacrifice; an unspotted lamb - innocent of any sin or wrong-doing, but falsely condemned to physical death anyway. Let us not forget that as fully man, Jesus would have physically died whether He was perfect or not. It is His condemnation to capital punishment as an innocent--thus His sacrifice--which holds significance for mankind.
No matter how His life finally was "finished" cannot take away what it is He accomplished. His suffering for the Atonement of our sins began in Gethsemane; and that suffering finally ended while He hung on the cross. For anyone to read about what took place in the Garden of Gethsemane, regardless of which version of the Bible you choose, and deny that the time Jesus spent there did not have anything to do with His Atonement is mind boggling. Whether you believe He actually sweat real blood or not; do you believe He did not suffer there? If all He sweat was what we sweat when we are frightened or working or hot, what do you think was the cause of His sweating? Was it not suffering for Him to kneel before Father and ask Him to remove the bitter cup? Can you imagine for one moment that the Son of God Himself would seek to be released from His suffering if He WASN'T suffering? Was He merely afraid of dying which caused Him to seek release from what Father wanted Him to do? I doubt it!!! Physical death comes to every one. Indeed, other men died on the cross all the time under Roman rule in the same manner.
Also, Jesus WAS suffering in the Garden as indicated by His returning to the Apostles; needing to wake them up because they didn't understand either (just like you don't) what was actually taking place. Jesus wanted their support; but they were so clueless they kept falling to sleep while the greatest suffering Jesus had ever experienced in His entire life in the flesh was taking place. Jesus literally had the weight of the sins of the world upon Him; it caused Him to tremble and sweat.
Luke 22:44 (KJV)
And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Do you think the above was some type of preparatory pre-suffering, or perhaps practice suffering, for what would take place later on the cross?
The "cross" that Christ carried was the burden of His mission. He has asked us to carry that same burden. We are to suffer WITH Him; not just accept Him.
As for the LDS Church to evolve to where they have chosen not to use the cross as a symbol of Christ's death, how does this diminish what He accomplished? For them to choose to look at His Resurrection instead, as it is His gift of life after death....how does this---how CAN this---diminish His Atonement??? Christians evolved to using a cross as their symbol because they wanted to differentiate themselves from those who did not believe in Christ. But it was an outward symbol. It is what is on the inside that matters to God. Many individuals wear crosses to show the world how righteous they are; yet this does not make them Christlike OR righteous.
I think perhaps that the following may have influenced the leaders of the LDS Church as she grew and evolved:
Matthew 6:5-7 (KJV)
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
And so they eventually chose not to use the symbol of the cross as they were trying to work on what was inward and not outward. They chose to focus on the fact that Christ lives; which simply does NOT diminish His Atonement. Just as God wants us to live in faith and prefers that man does not look for signs in order to come to believe in Christ, I doubt it is important to God if WE wear symbolism as a "sign" of our belief in Christ. In your disdain for the LDS Church, and in your desperation to find fault with anything and everything about the LDS Church, have you now turned the "cross" into an idol? Thus making the "cross" just as important as our Savior who died there? It certainly appears that way since you are using the cross against the LDS as though the cross is what holds the power of the Atonement rather than our Savior, Jesus Christ.
Good grief.
Blessings,
jo