Quasimodo wrote:Seriously, I would have to separate the words 'religious' and 'spiritual'. I do think that an interest in life after death comes earlier with a more advanced view of the world. Organized religion came about much later and had more to do with civil organization and control of society.
jo1952 wrote:Hello Quasimodo!
Very interesting! I would also separate the words "religious" and "spiritual". I find myself also pondering the rest of the above. Religious institutions do seem to evolve into control of at least their own society, if not an attempt to control all parts of society. It is not God's intent for this to happen. However, man's free will brings him to make choices which may have originally begun with good intentions. Ultimately, man's greed for power and control take over regardless of whether or not original intentions were connected to religious purposes. Godless men will use religion as a means to an end. Likewise, "religious" men will use religion as a means to an end.
Edited to add: Hmmm, when "religious" men use religion as a means to an end, do they actually return to a state of godlessness?
Thank you for the thought exercise.
Blessings,
jo
Quasimodo wrote:Hello jo!
As you might guess, I take a more secular view of religious origins. When we were all hunter/ gatherers the concept of a shaman worked pretty well. A shaman's job was to visit with God (or Gods) by going into a trance (hallucinogens or stress induced) to intercede for his people. To tell God what his people needed.
After the invention of farming and herding people were much more dependent on the cooperation of weather. Something only God could accomplish. The sacrifice of animals and crops to God to assure God's help became important. A priestly class was established to grantee that all rites were performed correctly and at the correct times.
It's kind of interesting that the shaman's role and the priest's role seem to be opposites. The shaman told God what the people needed. The priest told the people what God needed.
Hi Quasidmodo!
I know that many who at this point in their journey like to use labels about their own beliefs will most likely disagree with what I am about to offer through my own observations. But here goes.
I believe that each world, which includes the earth, has a cycle it goes through during which the human ones (i.e., spirits which have advanced to being placed into bodies which we now call human) partcipate in the birth and death process of that world which has evolved wherein it can support humanity in the manner and condition we now see on our earth. It appears that this particular cycle for our earth (as I am only currently consciously familiar with our earth and am unable to speak about this cycle as it unfolds in other worlds) will be around 8,000 years.
What we see which dates prior to approximately 5,000 years BC on the earth is actually evidence left over from prior life and death cycles of the earth. As each cycle evolves through to its "death" cycle, it is then renewed and reorganized for the next cycle. I like to identify them as allotted time bubbles. I have no idea how often our particular earth's foundation has experienced such cycles of time bubbles. Eternity exists in the past, in the present, and in the future. What we experience as time in this physical realm is different from how time is experienced in the spiritual realm. Also, in the physical realm we see in a linear time line.
So, why am I sharing all of this? It fits in with your own observations even though what you share does tend to be more secular. What you have described does mimic what human ones experience in their physical human bodies as they progress through the "part" of eternity which delegates the human ones to physical worlds. Because we are to learn of God and become like Him so that we can become unified with Him, but do this through the vehicle of faith, God has prepared the circumstances for man to be able to progress in faith. This manifests itself through phases such as you have been able to identify, as well as other phases. Shaman phases, priest phases, belief, non-belief, agnosticism, atheism, etc., etc. Because man is allowed his free will, we also see through the choices man makes, struggles for power, greed, control; but also love, caring, compassion, etc. We start out in each world in darkness. The human ones, through their choices, experience the consequences of those choices; thus learning through the actual experiencing of those consequences. Sometimes they experience the withdrawal of free will due to the actions of others; and sometimes they are the ones who withdraw free will from others.
Now, as our earth approaches the end of its current time bubble, God is preparing to have darkness overcome by Light (the second coming of Christ). Remember that at the foundation of this earth's current cycle how Light was separated from darkness (see Genesis), Light will overcome the darkness in the end of this cycle (see Revelation). Then, it will unfold once more......the foundation of a new world cycle will cause that Light is once again separated from darkness until such time as Light overcomes the darkness at the end of that cycle. This, to be repeated over and over again throughout the eternities; beginnings and endings evolving into beginnings and endings to the point that through the eyes of eternity (rather than through the eyes of physicalness) there are no beginnings and no endings because eternity exists in the past, in the present and in the future.
Getting back to your phases.....When Christ was born in the flesh His mission was to establish a system of belief whereby shamans (as you understand them) and priests no longer had to be the go betweens between humanity and God. Christ did establish Apostles to teach this Gospel message; that man could now follow His (Jesus') example and teachings to be able to return to God on their own. But man needs to believe Jesus and in Jesus, and understand what He meant in order for the necessary progression to take place. The purpose of the Apostles was to guide mankind to a personal relationship with God. But the One who is supposed to now LEAD us is NOT mankind at all. It is the Holy Ghost who does the true leading to God's Truths. Holy men can try to explain this, but they cannot do the leading. We must have the eyes and ears tuned into the spiritual realm so that the Holy Ghost who leads on the physical earth to the spiritual realm and out of the cycle of physical death which Christ overcame which keeps us separated from God, can do so. Yet man still resists this concept; they still want to do things their own way and not in accordance with God's will. So there is a physical "time" limit allotted to each world's life and death cycle.
Suffice to say, with respect to the phases you have identified, I believe there is a third phase which Christ established (even though man has miserably failed to embrace it) wherein we are now being led NOT by shaman or priests; but rather by the Holy Ghost. When Jesus taught "but few there be that find it", I believe He was speaking about this. Inasmuch as we cannot enter the Kingdom of God until our spirit is awakened and reborn, there are relatively few who understand or are able to "get it". Now, I also believe in reincarnation. In fact, I believe in a system of reincarnation which most would laugh at; but that is another subject entirely. However, through the process of multiple incarnations, the human ones (mankind) are able to progress to the point where each will become one of the few there be that find it. It cannot be accomplished in a phase of shamanship or institution of religion (priests). It is a personal journey which must be led by the Holy Ghost; not by man. Of course, this is an overview version which does not address any of the finer details such as forgiveness of sin, Justice, Mercy, commandments, ordinances, etc.
Blessings,
jo
Good one, jo! I appreciate a good sense of humor! Thanks for brightening my day!