LittleNipper wrote:[Do you believe in the wind? Do you believe in gravity? Do you believe in air? They are invisible but clearly have an affect on us. God is invisable but clearly ignorance of Him has a marked affect on society and the people living there...
Of course I believe those things because they're measurable & exist regardless of how much I believe in them or not.
So. You're being dishonest with conflating your fantasy with real world, measurable phenomena.
Tell me how you can scientifically measure the existence of your god, and we can proceed. Otherwise, you'll simply be regarded as a buffoon who spouts nonsense.
V/R Dr.Cam
You are the one who is dishonest... Morality is measurable. Character is measurable. Integrity is measurable. Honesty is measurable. Love is measurable. I would NEVER wish to live in a society where ANYTHING goes. And yet that is exactly where we as a nation are progressing as we as a people neglect godly roots. What is the prison population today. What is that percent of the population today? What was it in 1955? What was that percent of the population then? What is the abortion rate today? What was the abortion rate estimate for 1955? What is the range of premarital today? What was it in 1955? Can God influence a society to do the right thing --- I know so. You prove me wrong. Does God send judgment on a wicked nation? Look at our economy and look at our values today --- just for starters.
LittleNipper wrote:You are wrong. How can a person who says there is no God ever be considered honest ---- when you are not even honest with yourself. See the first part of Psalm 104. Do such verses have other implacations? Sure! But it is obvious that the Flood is being used to explain God's abilities and greatness.
Psalm 104 1 Praise the Lord, my soul. Lord my God, you are very great; you are clothed with splendor and majesty. 2 The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent 3 and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind. 4 He makes winds his messengers,[a] flames of fire his servants.
5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. 6 You covered it with the watery depths as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. 7 But at your rebuke the waters fled, at the sound of your thunder they took to flight; 8 they flowed over the mountains, they went down into the valleys, to the place you assigned for them. 9 You set a boundary they cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth.
10
You stated, in response to the flood meme, which was quoting Jeremiah 5:22, that the quoted scripture was talking about another worldwide flood.
That scripture has nothing to do with that. Nada. Zilch.
God, you're so ignorant of your own scriptures it's stunning. Yet, here you and Sub-Genius are just perpetuating the reality that Christians are uneducated rubes spouting nonsense. Why would you continue to paint Christians in such a light?
V/R Dr. Cam
You misunderstood. The Jeremiah passage was not another worldwide flood. It was referencing the original FLOOD of Noah. Christians are hardly uneducated. They have another world view that you obviously do not possess; therefore, you would not understand it. That doesn't make you a rube.
LittleNipper wrote:Christians are hardly uneducated. They have another world view that you obviously do not possess; therefore, you would not understand it.
Christians have, to varying degrees, a magical, supernatural worldview. It's not that hard to understand.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
LittleNipper wrote:You misunderstood. The Jeremiah passage was not another worldwide flood. It was referencing the original FLOOD of Noah. Christians are hardly uneducated. They have another world view that you obviously do not possess; therefore, you would not understand it. That doesn't make you a rube.
I thought Christians were supposed to check their pride at the door? Clearly you haven't.
It absolutely has nothing to do with the FLOOD of Noah whatsoever.Read this so you can get a better understanding of this passage, and what your god is attempting to convey:
5:19-31 Unhumbled hearts are ready to charge God with being unjust in their afflictions. But they may read their sin in their punishment. If men will inquire wherefore the Lord doeth hard things unto them, let them think of their sins. The restless waves obeyed the Divine decree, that they should not pass the sandy shores, which were as much a restraint as lofty mountains; but they burst all restraints of God's law, and were wholly gone into wickedness. Neither did they consider their interest. While the Lord, year after year, reserves to us the appointed weeks of harvest, men live on his bounty; yet they transgress against him. Sin deprives us of God's blessings; it makes the heaven as brass, and the earth as iron. Certainly the things of this world are not the best things; and we are not to think, that, because evil men prosper, God allows their practices. Though sentence against evil works is not executed speedily, it will be executed. Shall I not visit for these things? This speaks the certainty and the necessity of God's judgments. Let those who walk in bad ways consider that an end will come, and there will be bitterness in the latter end.
I'd really like you to apologize, and accept responsibility for your pride and admit your error.
V/R Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
LittleNipper wrote:You misunderstood. The Jeremiah passage was not another worldwide flood. It was referencing the original FLOOD of Noah. Christians are hardly uneducated. They have another world view that you obviously do not possess; therefore, you would not understand it. That doesn't make you a rube.
I thought Christians were supposed to check their pride at the door? Clearly you haven't.
It absolutely has nothing to do with the FLOOD of Noah whatsoever.Read this so you can get a better understanding of this passage, and what your god is attempting to convey:
5:19-31 Unhumbled hearts are ready to charge God with being unjust in their afflictions. But they may read their sin in their punishment. If men will inquire wherefore the Lord doeth hard things unto them, let them think of their sins. The restless waves obeyed the Divine decree, that they should not pass the sandy shores, which were as much a restraint as lofty mountains; but they burst all restraints of God's law, and were wholly gone into wickedness. Neither did they consider their interest. While the Lord, year after year, reserves to us the appointed weeks of harvest, men live on his bounty; yet they transgress against him. Sin deprives us of God's blessings; it makes the heaven as brass, and the earth as iron. Certainly the things of this world are not the best things; and we are not to think, that, because evil men prosper, God allows their practices. Though sentence against evil works is not executed speedily, it will be executed. Shall I not visit for these things? This speaks the certainty and the necessity of God's judgments. Let those who walk in bad ways consider that an end will come, and there will be bitterness in the latter end.
I'd really like you to apologize, and accept responsibility for your pride and admit your error.
V/R Dr. Cam
You really do not see that this portion of scripture is using the Flood as an illustration. The referance to the Divine Decree almost restates the passage from the Psalm about the waves being restrained. I see no reason to believe that what I have stated is wrong. God uses illustrations in the Bible and multiple applications are not unreasonable. But I will apologize that you are offended by things you disagree with.
LittleNipper wrote:You really do not see that this portion of scripture is using the Flood as an illustration. The referance to the Divine Decree almost restates the passage from the Psalm about the waves being restrained. I see no reason to believe that what I have stated is wrong. God uses illustrations in the Bible and multiple applications are not unreasonable. But I will apologize that you are offended by things you disagree with.
You sound like you're trying to wriggle out of this by claiming that "restrained" does not mean "restrained"; that "decree" does not mean "decree"; that "waves" do not mean "waves". We see a lot of this sort of thing in the Mormon Church, where "horse" doesn't really mean "horse" and "steel" doesn't really mean "steel". It's good to see that Mormons aren't the only ones who like to play these silly word games.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
LittleNipper wrote:Christians are hardly uneducated. They have another world view that you obviously do not possess; therefore, you would not understand it.
Christians have, to varying degrees, a magical, supernatural worldview. It's not that hard to understand.
And to a varying degree, people who do not believe in a supreme power become slaves to a hedonistic world view.
LittleNipper wrote:You really do not see that this portion of scripture is using the Flood as an illustration. The referance to the Divine Decree almost restates the passage from the Psalm about the waves being restrained. I see no reason to believe that what I have stated is wrong. God uses illustrations in the Bible and multiple applications are not unreasonable. But I will apologize that you are offended by things you disagree with.
You sound like you're trying to wriggle out of this by claiming that "restrained" does not mean "restrained"; that "decree" does not mean "decree"; that "waves" do not mean "waves". We see a lot of this sort of thing in the Mormon Church, where "horse" doesn't really mean "horse" and "steel" doesn't really mean "steel". It's good to see that Mormons aren't the only ones who like to play these silly word games.
I believe if God didn't restrain the oceans, as He stated, they would wash over the land masses and destroy the earth. God said He would not destroy the earth with another Flood, and yet flooding certainly takes place. But the reality is that one must seek what God is saying in the Bible from the Bible. And the understanding is clear that God does not intended to cover the entire earth in by another World Wide Flood. I have no intention to argue this point with you. I understood this from when I was a child. The meaning is clear. People trying to make excuses for themselves as to why they do not believe in God, are simply grabbing at straws. The Book of Mormon is very dangerous in that it is based on the false notion that God can lose portions of His word and the implcation are that the Bible is full of man made errors and mistakes that only man can correct. Soey, I do not buy into the notion that God is not in full control. And the reality is that many former Mormons do find true faith and Christianity after Mormonism. They do not all become atheists or cling to other false religious beliefs.
LittleNipper wrote:You really do not see that this portion of scripture is using the Flood as an illustration. The referance to the Divine Decree almost restates the passage from the Psalm about the waves being restrained. I see no reason to believe that what I have stated is wrong. God uses illustrations in the Bible and multiple applications are not unreasonable. But I will apologize that you are offended by things you disagree with.
Once again we can see a Christian's pride even when the Christian is openly and obviously wrong on a point that the Christian made repeatedly.
The passage had nothing to do, whatsoever, with The Flood, as you asserted over and over again.
I'd like to see you demonstrate your supposedly Christian humility, and apologize for being wrong, and then trying to cover it up with nonsense.
V/R Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
It's quite the opposite. Most secular-minded types give to charity that has a direct impact on the human condition, while most god-minded types tend to give to charities that promote their brand.
If anyone has a hedonistic point of view it you and your ilk for promoting your agenda while the secularists promote betterment of the human condition.
That's two apologies now, you owe, for lying and pushing a false view.
V/R Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.