new guy here.

[_redi2ride]

Hello everyone. I am coming here for the discussion of Truth. I have a strong testimony but lack The technical knowledge I have , due to a poor memory. I would love to share my life experience with you as well as hear yours. As for today I have some questions to start with. I have a family member who has been very anti religion for years. He thinks it was created by bad people to control the masses through un provable superstition.
Yet he acknowledges his testimony that there is a greater being controlling the universe. Lately he has been reading "A" Bible. His interpitations are way off from the King James version I read. He recently told me he read about incest being acceptable in the Bible. he told me it was a story about two girls who got their father drunk and mated with him to have children and one of them got caught and was punished by him. That is just crazy talk to me. Where is he getting this stuff from?
He also says he has read how women are nothing more than possession's like cattle to the men in the Bible. I wish I had a deep technical memory of the scriptures I feel my only angle is to make sure I don't chase away the spirit with contention and offer to help him understand the scriptures better through heart felt study. Not the reading to be able to prove others wrong.

[_Sammy Jankins]

he told me it was a story about two girls who got their father drunk and mated with him to have children and one of them got caught and was punished by him. That is just crazy talk to me. Where is he getting this stuff from?

Genesis 19

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

I'm not a Bible expert so I don't have any comments on the passages, but this is where that comes from.

[_redi2ride]

oh, ok. So why would we be told that lot had incestual relations that began his blood line? There has to be a point to it. The story just ends there. Moab and Ammon. I guess it's time to dig in and find out where they and their seed ended up.

[_subgenius]

oh, ok. So why would we be told that lot had incestual relations that began his blood line? There has to be a point to it. The story just ends there. Moab and Ammon. I guess it's time to dig in and find out where they and their seed ended up.

The obvious points are
The danger of being drunk
That danger lurks even when you think you are safe
Though disturbing to modern senses, invest was not a violation at that time. Incest sends to have been tolerated during this time of replenishing the earth...however the deceit and wickedness of Lot seems to be the real issue.
You will discover that the resulting bloodlines were cursed as they warred with Israel for many years.

[_ZelphtheGreat]

One does not need to believe in a specific "God" to believe in a controlling force. Whether it is gravity, quasars or oak tree sap, somehow things are organized and orderly for the most part. Science has many more explanations than religion that make sense. Science is also open to changing the interpretations as further research shows more clearly what happens.

As for the Bible, you can "prove" most anything from its pages.

One thing is sure. Joseph Smith did not restore much of the 'plain and precious truths' that were supposedly removed by wicked and designing men with his supposed translation. Nor does the Book of Mormon contain much at all of LDS Doctrine. You have to look at the fertile mind of various men to come up with all the crazy stuff in religion. That is why you have Brigham Young stating one thing definitively and current LDS leaders stating something else - even denying he said what he said even though it in their own books.

Faith and Religion are not the same thing and many people across the world are good folks even though they have never heard of Mormons.

Your not being familiar with the story you asked about points to the fact you need to actually read and study these books you believe are scripture for yourself. Study outside the LDS sunday school and priesthood meetings as you have not been exposed to it there except in a sanitized way.

[_redi2ride]

Ya I get what your saying Mr. Zelph. I am well aware of your kind. I am not your average Mormon grown in a Mushroom like environment. heh, heh. I look at the world much different than you assume. I will tell you now. I have Been "shown" precious things involving this "religion" that I can never deny. I understand not everyone can handle it or are mature enough to see it for what it really is. I will never look down on any one who doesn't get it fully or even those who despise it. I love everyone. I know for a fact that the things this religion are doing is a heavenly work. It has been years since I have had time or patience to study for myself. I have been quite lazy. Although I have been helped spiritually along the way. I do remember this story now that I have been reminded of it. Thanks to Sammy. I am progressing in fixing this flaw of mine. Being a busy Family man doesn't allow much catch up time for my lazy/rebellious days. I am actually only worried about this family members twisted way of interpreting the Bible. Converting him to LDS is the Lords job. Maybe the Lord will see fit he be a Baptist instead. I just see his desire to win a few arguments as the reason he is even opening the book at all. So to keep up with him and his notions I need to use this forum for quick reference. I am not trying to convert him. I am trying to save him from his cynical views and his desire to find reasons to not submit to Christ. So, only with time and prayer and patients will this end well.

[_redi2ride]

by the way this is my introduction post. I would love for those who stop by to tell me your "religious" belief system and why. like a lil mini testimony. thank you.

[_just me]

oh, ok. So why would we be told that lot had incestual relations that began his blood line? There has to be a point to it. The story just ends there. Moab and Ammon. I guess it's time to dig in and find out where they and their seed ended up.

It's how one group explains the "other" group. The Moabites and Ammonites were enemies of the Israelites. This is a nifty myth they came up with to explain why. And what would be more emasculating than to be raped by your young virgin daughters?

[_zeezrom]

Hi redi2ride.

My 2 cents are: don't worry about the beliefs of your loved ones. For God's sake, never bring up religion with him. Instead, talk about Harley Davidsons and road trips.

I believe in Athena but would never profess this to my father. Why should I?

Peace,

Zee.

[_redi2ride]

Uh, Weird. ZEE, do you know who I am? or were you being general? lol.