Misconceptions about the Mormon Church (U.K.)

[_hobo1512]

That's your characterization of events. And like most of the other things you have said, has little bearing on reality.

Keep telling yourself that little buddy. Maybe if you say it over and over enough, you'll believe it, and so with the Easter Bunny.

[_Mary]

Well, they are not allowing any further comments on the you tube page, which is annoying to say the least and a little frustrating. I don't think LDS Europe (whoever he is - interesting I have assumed it is a he, would be wonderful to have wondered about whether it was a she) is up to the job. In a way I feel that the church has been unfair to him and whoever else is in control of these presentations. (Assuming that the PR dept in Utah has had input)

Anyhow, to make this positive. I'll repeat my question to Why Me and any other active member that wants to answer.

Do you really think Stephen Kerr was being honest in his dealing of polygamy? How do you think he could have presented the subject that would have been more honest about LDS history and theology?

[_Mary]

snip

[_why me]

Mary was a little off in her posts about the press.

No I wasn't.

However, treason was still trumped up to arrest Joseph and his brother and hold them in prison.

Rather than take the 'victim' mentality on this Why Me, why not ask 'What did the Mormons do that engendered so much opposition to them?'

I think, personally, that there were mistakes on both sides, arrogance on both sides, bad behaviour on both sides. I'm not excusing one or the other, I just think it is more complex than you are making out.

They wanted him out of the way in hope that the church would fall without them.

I think you are probably right on that.

We also need to remember that the atmosphere at that time was extremely stressful for the people of Nauvoo who saw visions of Missouri again...burnings, death and destruction of their town by outsiders.

...and as we can see from the Mountain Meadows Massacre, Mormons were just as capable of barbarous and evil acts.

"The Saints themselves may not have been totally without blame in the matter. The feelings of the Missourians, even though misplaced, were undoubtedly intensified by the rhetoric of the gathering itself. They were quick to listen to the boasting of a few overzealous Saints who too-loudly declared a divine right to the land. As enthusiastic millennialists, they proclaimed that the time of the gentiles was short, and they were perhaps too quick to quote the revelation that said that 'the Lord willeth that the disciples and the children of men should open their hearts, even to purchase this whole region of country, as soon as time will permit" (The Story of the Latter-day Saints, p. 83).

Not unrealistic to call up the militia to protect the town in case of a mob invasion.

But in light of the fact that Joseph had had a printing press destroyed, that Mormons were probably illegally practicing polygamy, that many had a disdain for 'gentile's', and that emotions and rumours were heightened on both sides, it was probably seen as an incendiary act.

Joseph knew that he was going to die.

It's easy to say that in hindsight, but the fact that he left to go west and was only persuaded back by his wife and others indicates that like any 'normal' person he would have got out of it if he could have done.

Why me, do you really think Stephen Kerr was being honest in his dealing of polygamy? How do you think he could have presented the subject that would have been more honest about LDS history and theology?

I think Mary that you need to hone up on church history. We are talking about mobs of people attempting to burn out and plunder other people and their property for their beliefs. Such was life for the Mormons. What did the Indians do to deserve their treatment? Can we blame the victim? What did the jews do to deserve their fate during WWII? Your logic is flawed on that point. Joseph was arrested for teason, not for polygamy, not for shutting down a press. The council members were released on bail for the press and they were just as responsible as Joseph. Sorry, Mary, but you are a little off on this. The Mormons had presses destroyed in Missouri, they were murdered, tarred and feathered and had their property plundered. Who were punished for these acts? No one. Was their a siege mentality? Sure. Was it deserved? Yes.

[_why me]

Well, they are not allowing any further comments on the you tube page, which is annoying to say the least and a little frustrating. I don't think LDS Europe (whoever he is - interesting I have assumed it is a he, would be wonderful to have wondered about whether it was a she) is up to the job. In a way I feel that the church has been unfair to him and whoever else is in control of these presentations. (Assuming that the PR dept in Utah has had input)

Anyhow, to make this positive. I'll repeat my question to Why Me and any other active member that wants to answer.

Do you really think Stephen Kerr was being honest in his dealing of polygamy? How do you think he could have presented the subject that would have been more honest about LDS history and theology?

Just like the days of old, the persecution of Mormons is continuing. The hatred for the LDS church knows no bounds. And what did the LDS church do to deserve it? Not much. But who is the source of such hatred?

[_why me]

Just a FYI since dates seem to be a problem with you. Joseph Smith was dead in 1876 when section 132 was added to the D&C.

Our friend has too much disdain in him to have a conversation with you. Just flaming and bomb throwing. No point in having a conversation really.

[_hobo1512]

I think Mary that you need to hone up on church history. We are talking about mobs of people attempting to burn out and plunder other people and their property for their beliefs. Such was life for the Mormons. What did the Indians do to deserve their treatment? Can we blame the victim? What did the jews do to deserve their fate during WWII? Your logic is flawed on that point. Joseph was arrested for teason, not for polygamy, not for shutting down a press. The council members were released on bail for the press and they were just as responsible as Joseph. Sorry, Mary, but you are a little off on this. The Mormons had presses destroyed in Missouri, they were murdered, tarred and feathered and had their property plundered. Who were punished for these acts? No one. Was their a siege mentality? Sure. Was it deserved? Yes.

I'm thinking you are the one who needs to "hone" up on church history. Smith and Co. were run out of every community they were in because of THEIR antics, and then cry persecution when the communities push back.

Smith was a convicted con man, liar, adulterer, and he abused the constitution, for which he was charged. He also shot at killed at least one man when he fired back. Read Church history vol. 6, and 24 hrs to Martyrdom by Elder Reed Blake.

Don't you get tired of being a hypocrite?

Oh, and by the way, shooting back is not like a lamb going to the slaughter like he tried to portray himself.

don't ;you get tire of being deceitful?

Smith was also boozing it up in jail too. Definitely following the Wow there wasn't he?

[_hobo1512]

Just a FYI since dates seem to be a problem with you. Joseph Smith was dead in 1876 when section 132 was added to the D&C.

Our friend has too much disdain in him to have a conversation with you. Just flaming and bomb throwing. No point in having a conversation really.

Now there is the pot calling the kettle black.

At least I am NOT:

Anti-Catholic
Anti-Semetic
Hypocrite
Deceitful.

At least I quote my sources for my claims.

by the way, still waiting on your proof that Ryan was chosen as Romney's running mate because he was Catholic.

You've never provided a legit reference in your life.

[Guest]

Just like the days of old, the persecution of Mormons is continuing. The hatred for the LDS church knows no bounds. And what did the LDS church do to deserve it? Not much. But who is the source of such hatred?

So, telling the truth about Mormonism is persecution......hmmm....got it.

Leading people away from a cult is perssecution.......hmmmm....got it

Have you had an EEG lately? You really should.

I will ask this again since nobody has ever been able to answer it. (you seem to have all of the answers)

At what point do Mormons take responsibility for their actions, and the resulting outcome?

[_tapirrider]

why me wrote

What did the Indians do to deserve their treatment? Can we blame the victim? What did the jews do to deserve their fate during WWII?

Mormonism blames the Indians and the Jews.

The ancestors of today's American Indians rejected the God of the Bible and became lazy, full of mischief and loathsome. They abandoned civilized things like agriculture and devolved into hunting beasts. God cursed them and caused their skin to darken so that good people would not find them attractive. If any good people married them, their children and descendants would be cursed.

2 Nephi 5:

21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
24 And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.


1 Nephi 12:

23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.


The Jews have suffered because they did not believe in Christ.

2 Nephi 25:

15 Wherefore, the Jews shall be scattered among all nations; yea, and also Babylon shall be destroyed; wherefore, the Jews shall be scattered by other nations.
16 And after they have been scattered, and the Lord God hath scourged them by other nations for the space of many generations, yea, even down from generation to generation until they shall be persuaded to believe in Christ, the Son of God, and the atonement, which is infinite for all mankind—and when that day shall come that they shall believe in Christ, and worship the Father in his name, with pure hearts and clean hands, and look not forward any more for another Messiah, then, at that time, the day will come that it must needs be expedient that they should believe these things.


The bad things that happened to Jews were their own fault and God did it.

Jacob 4:

14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.




Columbus and the European nations came to America. God was with the Europeans and against the American Indian.

1 Nephi 13:

10 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld many waters; and they divided the Gentiles from the seed of my brethren.
11 And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Behold the wrath of God is upon the seed of thy brethren.
12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.
13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.
15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.
16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles who had gone forth out of captivity did humble themselves before the Lord; and the power of the Lord was with them.



Bad things happened to the American Indians because they became filthy, loathsome, idolatrous and the Lord blessed the Europeans instead.

Mormon 5:

15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.

19 And behold, the Lord hath reserved their blessings, which they might have received in the land, for the Gentiles who shall possess the land.
20 But behold, it shall come to pass that they shall be driven and scattered by the Gentiles; and after they have been driven and scattered by the Gentiles, behold, then will the Lord remember the covenant which he made unto Abraham and unto all the house of Israel.

The racism segments of the UK video doesn't mention anything about this.