Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

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_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Bhodi wrote:Dirty little secret, I have a more extensive academic and professional resume than you do. But who cares. I never mentioned it, and likely never will again, because it does not matter. I don’t care, and will never brag about it, because it is all an illusion of hubris. My ego does not need buttressing...

Quoted for truth. Oh, the irony...
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
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I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
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_Bazooka
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _Bazooka »

Bhodi wrote:Do you appreciate the irony, in agreeing with Dr. W that I had been “Hoisted by ones own petard”?


Do you appreciate the irony in an organisation that only shares part of the truth about itself declaring that dishonesty is when you only share part of the truth?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_Droopy
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _Droopy »

Bazooka wrote:
...Yet we find an unwillingness to discuss difficult areas of Church history, with the excuse that some aspects of Church history are not faith promoting.

There should be no truth claim which under the ‘full light of day’ is proven to be otherwise. Yet we find many of the truth claims to be based not on substantive facts, but on an altered narrative crucially lacking in historical accuracy, with uncomfortable, yet context altering details suspiciously ignored, even hidden from the membership.

Yet we find many failed or changed prophetic pronouncements of the past suspiciously declared as “folklore” & just “personal opinion”.

we find that instead of being assisted, they are ignored at best, or at worst ostracized for simply wanting to know the full facts about the origins of their Church. In most cases Stake Presidents & Bishops are ill-equipped to answer their questions.

Brethren your response to these questions will not only show sincere concern, but could potentially resolve the painful religious trauma syndrome many members suffer from as a result of the cognitive dissonance they face as they encounter historical facts completely in contradiction with the story told them by the Church.

Brethren, we DECLARE this day, the 21st December 2012, that without a formal public pronouncement of the answers to these crucial questions in a full, frank & honest manner, that you as leaders of this Church be held responsible for the continued wilful deception of many millions of faithful Church members. The Church membership needs its leaders to show integrity, humility & absolute honesty if this Church is to continue to provide the sense of purpose & security which the faithful members deserve.

We will not go away, and there are thousands of others also ready to speak as we do. Truth will win out in the end, we hope you have the courage to follow that truth no matter where it may lead.

We affirm to you that humility, honesty, integrity & authenticity is a far greater & more rewarding path to follow than blind obedience & meaningless loyalty can ever be.

Yours faithfully

Martha Bache
David Bloor
Steve Bloor
Jeremy Brown
Lisa Campbell
Pip Chapman
Damian Mitchell
Tim Morgan
Tom Phillips
Sophia Ralph
Ted Ralph
Ken Smith



There's nothing to respond to. Just more liberals who have tasted the fruit of the Tree of Life, turned to see the hip, cool people in the Great and Spacious Building sniggering and mocking, and become ashamed of the fruit they'd been holding in their hands. Dropping it, they begin looking for a suitably rationalized and lofty-sounding way out and seeking to take as many with them as possible to justify their own intellectual and spiritual shallowness.

Most of their broad complaints have been responded to plausibly, if not adequately, by the Brethren themselves and by competent LDS scholarship and apologetic critique for decades, and most of their complaints involve, not settled facts, as they so tendentiously imply, but highly contested, disputed, questionable criticisms open to multiple interpretations, not just those of apostates sniffing for a pretext to bolt from the fold and to bolt in the most public, self-serving, and pseudo-principled way possible.

This kind of thing has been going on for a long time. Why should the Church respond to each and every group of cranky recreants who have determined that they do not desire to live the standards and principles of the gospel?

The Church has better things to do.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Droopy wrote:There's nothing to respond to. Just more liberals who have tasted the fruit of the Tree of Life, turned to see the hip, cool people in the Great and Spacious Building sniggering and mocking, and become ashamed of the fruit they'd been holding in their hands.

You're talking about that big fancy mall across the street from Temple Square, right?
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_Bhodi
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _Bhodi »

Bazooka wrote:
Bhodi wrote:Do you appreciate the irony, in agreeing with Dr. W that I had been “Hoisted by ones own petard”?


Do you appreciate the irony in an organisation that only shares part of the truth about itself declaring that dishonesty is when you only share part of the truth?


The problem is the only person I have seen be dishonest lately has been Dr. W.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Back to the OP, do people really think that the LDS church will respond to this proclamation or to the new 95 theses? Responding would imply that there is some reason to respond, creating the impression that the church view them as serious enough to warrant a response. Or maybe the question was rhetorical.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Bazooka
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _Bazooka »

Bhodi wrote:The problem is the only person I have seen be dishonest lately has been Dr. W.


I can recommend a good optician...
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Pope Leo responded to the original 95 Theses with a papal bull, but that was mainly because Luther enjoyed a good deal of popular support. I doubt the LDS Church will pay any attention to this petition.

If, on the other hand, the petitioners are savvy enough to stage some sort of publicity stunt...
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _Res Ipsa »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:Pope Leo responded to the original 95 Theses with a papal bull, but that was mainly because Luther enjoyed a good deal of popular support. I doubt the LDS Church will pay any attention to this petition.

If, on the other hand, the petitioners are savvy enough to stage some sort of publicity stunt...


I'd advise against nailing a copy to one of the GAs...
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Yeah, it would be better to nail copies to all the GAs.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
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