Priesthood for women

[_madeleine]

As a person who has much dealt with the Bible; do I ask myself the question why there are no women in the LDS, the RCC and many other churches, which are deaconesses, priestesses or parish priests?
Because it cannot come from the Bible.
Women who had the priesthood are reporting in the Bible. Yes, even a woman who was an apostle is mentioned by Paul in the Bible (Junia in Romans, 16:7) why so the RCC does not have any female cardinal or pope?
And why the LDS does not have a woman who is an apostle?
The church claims to be the direct succession of the early Church anyway. Therefore, dear prophet, then call women as Elders and HP, too!

RCC, and Protestants as well, believe all the baptized are priests.

Ordination, I can't see changing, ever, as an ordained priest acts in the person of Christ, who is male. I'm not upset at women being ordained, just as I am not upset that Christ is male.

As a Roman Catholic, I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. The "apostolic" part of that statement has more than one meaning, the obvious is in the succession of our bishops to the apostles. The second is by our baptism, we are all apostles. The meaning of apostle being "one who is sent". We are sent, dismissed, at the end of every Mass, to the same purpose of proclaiming Christ.

As for Mary Magdalene (my patroness...see my avatar and screen name!) we call her the apostle to the Apostles, as she was sent by the risen Christ to the Apostles. She is also called "Friend of God" (my favorite title for her). She is, incidentally, the patroness for all of UT, her patronage being rooted in her apostleship. We are the people of Mary Magdalene, under the patronage of one who is sent, and so share in doing the same, ie, we are sent, ie we are apostles.

[Guest]

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[_Bazooka]

subgenius has a really good point.

Why try to be part of an organization that you disdain?

Because you will lose your family and friends if you don't appear to be playing the game, perhaps?

ofcourse I know it is more complex than that .... but basically you would like to kick out members who stand in your way?

Mormonism advocates that it is open to members with varying levels of belief.

This factor will fall under survival of the fittest

Define 'fittest' in religious terms

I think I understand a womans point of view

CFR

.... the best for the most at any given time ... but ... that can change upon notice.

Are you talking about doctrine?

Its very dependent on a feeling and not anything that can be measured ,,, a dynamic variable that can be measured one minute , then ??? you might need to remove that variable from the eqauation later. So yes .... I'm sarcastically exagorative about how a woman cannont make up her mind. or am I?

Oh dear, you're gonna pay for that one...

Mormonism works if you rely on positively interpreting feelings and emotions over facts and tangible information.
That's why the Church is disproportionately female in its adult population, because (generally speaking) the female of the species is more aligned with accepting emotions and feelings than males.

[_subgenius]

...(snip)...Mormonism works if you rely on positively interpreting feelings and emotions over facts and tangible information.

not accurate and intentionally misleading. Mormonism requires that facts and "tangible" information are interwoven with promptings of the spirit. "Study it out" is the genesis of every Mormon counsel and is even a precursor to praying/fasting.
Once again, we see a post of misinformation from he who "Drifts".

That's why the Church is disproportionately female in its adult population, because (generally speaking) the female of the species is more aligned with accepting emotions and feelings than males.

CFR for gender proportions
CFR for species "alignment"

otherwise your concession will be noted.

[_Jutta]

So then it is a fact that women are not up to par with what it takes to exercise the power ?

Women have another access for the concept POWER. They would like to reach something for the people, men only for himself and his macker. I love the first part of the movie Spiderman where the uncle said that also big responsibility is accompanied by great power. Men too often seem this to "forget".

[_subgenius]

So then it is a fact that women are not up to par with what it takes to exercise the power ?

Women have another access for the concept POWER. They would like to reach something for the people, men only for himself and his macker. I love the first part of the movie Spiderman where the uncle said that also big responsibility is accompanied by great power. Men too often seem this to "forget".

As do many others, you too seem to confuse power with authority. The priesthood is authority, as is clear by the requirement of how each ordinance is performed.

Notwithstanding your comic book philosophy, it should noted that women seem to "forget" as well.

[_Mary]

Subgenius said concerning the Eucharist.

i believe it is interesting in the intimate setting that Christ would give such instruction...that among these 12 he conveyed such an important aspect of Christianity...this was not something He had offered at some mass gathering but rather among the Apostles...

Okay, a couple of comments about this. The way the thanksgiving meal was partaken of differed I believe depending on which group you look at, as did the manner of baptism. It also developed over time and parallels can be found again in the Old Testament and in various Jewish groups such as the Therapeutae (whose adherents included both men and women interestingly).

Nowhere that I know of is Jesus quoted as saying that women cannot lead in this practice, neither does he say that non Levite/Aaronic priesthood holders are barred from doing so.

They may argue but are you saying that Jesus did not make such a commandment?
It would be unreasonable for John to have said, during Jesus' baptism, that which He had not yet commanded...besides John recognized the authority in Jesus over such an ordinance when he first tried to deter Jesus.

Probably not exactly as it stands with mention of father, son, and holy ghost. I think it is important to note that each of the gospel writers has an agenda, and is writing for a particular audience.

actually this type of prayer by elders was because when the elders prayed it was the same as having the whole church pray...there was a recognized "authority"...they were recognized as being able to represent the church.

But your assumption is that there was only one, clear cut, right way of doing things. Authority in my opinion, was fought for, just as it was in the early LDS .

"And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron." (Hebrews 5:4) - noting that Aaron was called by Moses as instructed by God.

Who wrote Hebrews? Again what the text implies is that authority was being fought for in that particular group. Many of the early church fathers, such as Clement, are fighting for the same thing.

i disagree...what these verses clearly indicate is that :
1. No women are being called for these specific tasks
2. No women are Apostles.
3. Aaron's calling is arguably one of priesthood authority.

On, 1 and 2).. That doesn't mean that women didn't fulfil those tasks, as Paul indicates in his genuine letters.

[_Jutta]

Facts cannot be argued away. And it is a fact that women hold the priesthood in the early Church. And, that they cannot this get it in the LDS. The LDS describes himself as a successor of the early Church anyway. Pick and choose is not the right way to handle with facts.

[_Mary]

Facts cannot be argued away. And it is a fact that women hold the priesthood in the early Church. And, that they cannot this get it in the LDS. The LDS describes himself as a successor of the early Church anyway. Pick and choose is not the right way to handle with facts.

Jutta, I'm not sure that is correct. It appears that priesthood in the sense that LDS use the term wasn't used. So the Apostles were not priesthood holders in any Jewish sense. They didn't hold the Levitical Priesthood. Later on, the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek was assigned to Jesus. He made a once and for all sacrifice so there was no longer any need for the Levites to sacrifice in the temple. He was the great High Priest. I'm not sure that he regarded himself as a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek whilst he was alive.

The very early church communities in some areas seemed to have an egalitarian view of the sexes where there was no male, female, bond, free, but all were alike unto God. But it didn't last as it became apparent that the Kingdom of God wasn't coming any time soon.

[_Albion]

Jutta, I do realize and understand that this is an important issue for you but in reality in terms of Christian belief the point is moot since Mormons hold neither of the priesthoods, Melchizedec or Aaronic (Levitical), that they claim. There is no Biblical evidence that anyone prior to Christ, other than Melchizedec himself, held any such priesthood and the Book of Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus himself "officiates" as our high priest on behalf of believers in the literal Holy of Holies where God dwells. Claims by Mormons holding the lessor priesthood, the Levitical priesthood, are bogus, too, because it was limited by literal lineal descent. They just don't qualify. Within traditional Christianity all believers hold priesthood, both women and men, a position that was clarified by your countryman Martin Luther in his term Priesthood of all Believers. So, my advice is to save yourself the upset and aggravation in trying to claim something that doesn't exist in the first place. Mormons will, of course, disagree but I am addressing your situation and not their claims.