Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

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_LittleNipper
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Quasimodo wrote:
Bazooka wrote:I see the French have now moved forward on same sex marriage....

Where was the Prop 8 style campaign by the Church in France?


The Church must have finally realized that the tide of international opinion is against them.

Just like with polygamy and Black priesthood, it's always best to abandon one's cherished beliefs in favor of political expediency.


The government is going to do what it wants. The Church has lost most all secular relevence in this present post modern secular society, as we move towards one world government. There are still polygamists in third world countries and even here. A black priesthood has always biblically existed among black Christians worldwide.
_Mktavish
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Mktavish »

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Last edited by Guest on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Mktavish wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:

The government is going to do what it wants. The Church has lost most all secular relevence in this present post modern secular society, as we move towards one world government. There are still polygamists in third world countries and even here. A black priesthood has always biblically existed among black Christians worldwide.


Well the feeling that same sex couples can and will edify what it means to be married is comming. "For they came from the depths of depravity to instruct those using and making gods law of marriage a watered down importance"

There is no better person to instruct a drug addict than a drug addict. Some people want to instruct as if a reality does not exist ... this never solves any problem , it only creates more.

I'm not saying that homosexuality is equal to drug addiction ... only that some view it as such. And Idealistic views on how things should be (by either side) doesn't solve the issue at hand.

And what is the issue at hand? Has marriage been watered down by the government? Certainly it has! Is the government correcting its mistakes? Certainly it is not! Gay marriage is but a show. I believe that the real plan is to end marrage. First the government must be enticed to make it a pointless mockery.
_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

LittleNipper wrote:And what is the issue at hand? Has marriage been watered down by the government? Certainly it has! Is the government correcting its mistakes? Certainly it is not! Gay marriage is but a show. I believe that the real plan is to end marrage. First the government must be enticed to make it a pointless mockery.


Hey Nipper.

Can you explain (or attempt to explain) the specifics about God's definition of "marriage"?
1. What ages do the participants of the marriage have to be?
2. How many participants can there be in a marriage?
3. What sexual persuasion do the participants have to be?
4. Do the participants of a marriage need to be virgin's?
5. Do the participants need a marriage free history to be able to participate in a new marriage?
6. Do the participants need any outside certification beyond their own agreement for it to be classed as a marriage?

I don't want a country's definition of what is/what isn't a marriage.
I want you to tell me what God's specific definition of marriage is and where this is written down for us to refer to.
Thanks.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_LittleNipper
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Bazooka wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:And what is the issue at hand? Has marriage been watered down by the government? Certainly it has! Is the government correcting its mistakes? Certainly it is not! Gay marriage is but a show. I believe that the real plan is to end marrage. First the government must be enticed to make it a pointless mockery.


Hey Nipper.

Can you explain (or attempt to explain) the specifics about God's definition of "marriage"?
1. What ages do the participants of the marriage have to be?
2. How many participants can there be in a marriage?
3. What sexual persuasion do the participants have to be?
4. Do the participants of a marriage need to be virgin's?
5. Do the participants need a marriage free history to be able to participate in a new marriage?
6. Do the participants need any outside certification beyond their own agreement for it to be classed as a marriage?

I don't want a country's definition of what is/what isn't a marriage.
I want you to tell me what God's specific definition of marriage is and where this is written down for us to refer to.
Thanks.
Genesis 2:19-24
19Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals. But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23The man said,“This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’for she was taken out of man.” 24That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Ephesians 5:21-33
21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Matthew 19:3-11
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’b ? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”7“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” 10The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” 11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Mark 10:2-12
2Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”3“What did Moses command you?” he replied. 4They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”5“It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”



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_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

LittleNipper wrote:
Bazooka wrote:Hey Nipper.

Can you explain (or attempt to explain) the specifics about God's definition of "marriage"?
1. What ages do the participants of the marriage have to be?
2. How many participants can there be in a marriage?
3. What sexual persuasion do the participants have to be?
4. Do the participants of a marriage need to be virgin's?
5. Do the participants need a marriage free history to be able to participate in a new marriage?
6. Do the participants need any outside certification beyond their own agreement for it to be classed as a marriage?

I don't want a country's definition of what is/what isn't a marriage.
I want you to tell me what God's specific definition of marriage is and where this is written down for us to refer to.
Thanks.
Genesis 2:19-24
a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Ephesians 5:21-33
<doesn't answer any of the questions

Matthew 19:3-11
anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.

Mark 10:2-12
“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”


So, you have answered questions 3 and 5.
God defines marriage as between "man" and "woman". (Although he doesn't state that a man cannot marry a man or that a woman cannot marry a woman. Nor does he forbid multiple, concurrent marital partners)
God says you can only divorce for reasons of sexual misconduct. (Can you think of any justifiable reasons for divorce that God might have missed?)

What about the other questions?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:
So, you have answered questions 3 and 5.
God defines marriage as between "man" and "woman". (Although he doesn't state that a man cannot marry a man or that a woman cannot marry a woman. Nor does he forbid multiple, concurrent marital partners)...(snip)...

He also does not specifically forbid a man from marrying a biscuit or a woman from marrying two pieces of bark....don't you think He might be trying to give us credit for being able to use our ability to discern?
Or are you arguing that the natural inclination of humans is SSM and God suddenly realized that He needed to specify OSM? :rolleyes:
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Bazooka
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:He also does not specifically forbid a man from marrying a biscuit or a woman from marrying two pieces of bark....don't you think He might be trying to give us credit for being able to use our ability to discern?

That's a false dilemma as a biscuit and pieces of bark aren't human (although I've seen some very attractive biscuits in my time...).

Or are you arguing that the natural inclination of humans is SSM and God suddenly realized that He needed to specify OSM? :rolleyes:

I'm not arguing anything.
I'm asking for references about what God Himself has specifically explained with regards to "marriage".
If God has left it open for us to use our own judgement on these matters, then He can hardly complain if He doesn't like the results.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
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Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:
subgenius wrote:He also does not specifically forbid a man from marrying a biscuit or a woman from marrying two pieces of bark....don't you think He might be trying to give us credit for being able to use our ability to discern?

That's a false dilemma as a biscuit and pieces of bark aren't human (although I've seen some very attractive biscuits in my time...).

Or are you arguing that the natural inclination of humans is SSM and God suddenly realized that He needed to specify OSM? :rolleyes:

I'm not arguing anything.
I'm asking for references about what God Himself has specifically explained with regards to "marriage".
If God has left it open for us to use our own judgement on these matters, then He can hardly complain if He doesn't like the results.

Thus the bark and biscuit.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_LittleNipper
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Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Same Sex Marriage - UK takes a step forward...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Bazooka wrote:Hey Nipper.

Can you explain (or attempt to explain) the specifics about God's definition of "marriage"?
1. What ages do the participants of the marriage have to be?
2. How many participants can there be in a marriage?
3. What sexual persuasion do the participants have to be?
4. Do the participants of a marriage need to be virgin's?
5. Do the participants need a marriage free history to be able to participate in a new marriage?
6. Do the participants need any outside certification beyond their own agreement for it to be classed as a marriage?

I don't want a country's definition of what is/what isn't a marriage.
I want you to tell me what God's specific definition of marriage is and where this is written down for us to refer to.
Thanks. Genesis 2:19-24
a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Ephesians 5:21-33
<doesn't answer any of the questions

Matthew 19:3-11
anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.

Mark 10:2-12
“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”


So, you have answered questions 3 and 5.
God defines marriage as between "man" and "woman". (Although he doesn't state that a man cannot marry a man or that a woman cannot marry a woman. Nor does he forbid multiple, concurrent marital partners)
God says you can only divorce for reasons of sexual misconduct. (Can you think of any justifiable reasons for divorce that God might have missed?)

What about the other questions?

God does say that a man lying with a man is an abomination. To try and call it marriage isn't going to change anything. Marriage isn't an abomination; therefore, two homosexuals cannot get married to each other. There is the indication that the man is to stay with his parents until he marries. That would indicate a younger individual. Or at least one young at heart. God doesn't miss anything.
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