Original Sin and...

[_ludwigm]

I believe the Atonement contradicts the Catholic Doctrine.

What is the Catholic doctrine?

http://www.vatican.va --> CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH



by the way
I don't think subgenius ever read it...

[_Bazooka]

It seems the difference being, as subgenius articulated:
Mormons believe man will be punished for their own sins not for Adam's transgression.
Christians believe man is being punished for Adams transgression.
(I hope I'm not misinterpreting you subgenus).

Of course that means Mormons cannot be Christians!

[_subgenius]

It seems the difference being, as subgenius articulated:
Mormons believe man will be punished for their own sins not for Adam's transgression.
Christians believe man is being punished for Adams transgression.
(I hope I'm not misinterpreting you subgenus).

Of course that means Mormons cannot be Christians!

Of course it really means that most Christians are mistakenly calling themselves Christian, unaware of their own apostate doctrines...Mormons being fortunate by not suffering from such.

[_Bazooka]

It seems the difference being, as subgenius articulated:
Mormons believe man will be punished for their own sins not for Adam's transgression.
Christians believe man is being punished for Adams transgression.
(I hope I'm not misinterpreting you subgenus).

Of course that means Mormons cannot be Christians!

Of course it really means that most Christians are mistakenly calling themselves Christian, unaware of their own apostate doctrines...Mormons being fortunate by not suffering from such.

I think this thread has run it's course. But once again, I have really enjoyed the discussion so thanks.

[_madeleine]

Christians believe man is being punished for Adams transgression.

I understand it is a common belief among Mormons this is what Catholics believe, but we don't.

The doctrine of Original Sin isn't a description of something we have (punishment), it is a description of something we lack (sanctifying grace). The old Catholic encyclopedia describes the doctrine well:


But according to Catholic theology man has not lost his natural faculties: by the sin of Adam he has been deprived only of the Divine gifts to which his nature had no strict right, the complete mastery of his passions, exemption from death, sanctifying grace, the vision of God in the next life. The Creator, whose gifts were not due to the human race, had the right to bestow them on such conditions as He wished and to make their conservation depend on the fidelity of the head of the family. A prince can confer a hereditary dignity on condition that the recipient remains loyal, and that, in case of his rebelling, this dignity shall be taken from him and, in consequence, from his descendants. It is not, however, intelligible that the prince, on account of a fault committed by a father, should order the hands and feet of all the descendants of the guilty man to be cut off immediately after their birth. This comparison represents the doctrine of Luther which we in no way defend.

[_subgenius]

Christians believe man is being punished for Adams transgression.

I understand it is a common belief among Mormons this is what Catholics believe, but we don't.

really? Is it not Catholic Doctrine that every person born after Adam is born condemned and is beholden to Adam for his soul? that is to say, the reason Adam's sin influences your own soul is because your soul has been "inherited" along the lineage from Adam?

The doctrine of Original Sin isn't a description of something we have (punishment), it is a description of something we lack (sanctifying grace). The old Catholic encyclopedia describes the doctrine well:


But according to Catholic theology man has not lost his natural faculties: by the sin of Adam he has been deprived only of the Divine gifts to which his nature had no strict right, the complete mastery of his passions, exemption from death, sanctifying grace, the vision of God in the next life.

this is inaccurate...Adam was exempt from death until he ate the fruit. Even if we interpret as only a spiritual death for the topic (which it clearly implies both deaths), that punishment is clear and was not a condition of Adam's life prior. The idea that Adam's disobedience did not result in punishment is absurd. Adam was condemned to a mortal death (thus introducing misery, affliction, disease, and pain) and a spiritual death (loss of righteousness).

The Creator, whose gifts were not due to the human race, had the right to bestow them on such conditions as He wished and to make their conservation depend on the fidelity of the head of the family. A prince can confer a hereditary dignity on condition that the recipient remains loyal, and that, in case of his rebelling, this dignity shall be taken from him and, in consequence, from his descendants. It is not, however, intelligible that the prince, on account of a fault committed by a father, should order the hands and feet of all the descendants of the guilty man to be cut off immediately after their birth. This comparison represents the doctrine of Luther which we in no way defend.

This makes light of the atonement in my opinion.

[_Bazooka]

I think this thread has run it's course. But once again, I have really enjoyed the discussion so thanks.

Okay, so I was wrong!
Thanks Maddy, I think this continues to be interesting.