LittleNipper wrote: You may have read the entire Bible (though I must wonder at that). However, I feel that you have read the Bible looking through a Book of Mormon stained glass window. But I cannot imagine any TRUE Christian uninterested in reading the Bible a hundred times. I find that it is ALWAYS fresh and new, and God does reveal new and interesting things to those willing to go along for another ride...
OK, one more "last post" on this thread.
I have never been a Mormon, so I haven't read the Bible through Book of Mormon eyes. I find the Book of Mormon to be a work of fiction and I'm truly puzzled that anyone can believe it.
You shouldn't wonder that I have read the Bible cover to cover (it did take a few attempts). There was period in my life when I was searching for answers and I read virtually all of the revered books of all religions. I'll bet you can't honestly say the same.
I'm still wondering what a TRUE Christian might be. I don't think you are one, though. You're far too judgemental.
You are a crusader. They come and they go without truly understanding the point. Your posting of the entire Bible is only an attempt to score personal points with God. Much like those that self flagellate. It's not about God or even religion. It's all about you.
I have not established my own judgements. I look to the Bible for God's judgement. So, if it is all about me according to you, perhaps it's rather all about your opinion of me. It isn't about being judgemental, it is about what that judgement is founded on. Jesus clearly had views and got mad but He represented His Father's judgement. There is nothing wrong with being a crusader. I'm in the Lord's army.
Mktavish wrote:Hey nipper can we just cut to Matthew 7:6 King James Version (KJV) 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
This has become my favorite Bible passage ... because it pretty much tells you Bible quoters to shut ---- up
I must be doing something right because you are mad at me for all the wrong reasons ---- are you not?
Numbers 16:1-50 One day Korah son of Izhar, a descendant of Kohath son of Levi, conspired with Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth, from the tribe of Reuben. They incited a rebellion against Moses and Aaron, along with 250 prominent leaders of the community. They said what right did Moses & Aaron have to act as though they are greater than the rest of the Lord’s people? When Moses heard he fell face down on the ground. He told Korah and his followers that tomorrow morning the Lord will show who belongs to him and who is holy. The Lord will allow only those whom he selects to enter his own presence. Korah, and his followers must prepare incense burners. Light fires in them tomorrow, and burn incense before the Lord. Then we will see whom the Lord chooses as his holy one. Then Moses spoke again to Korah saying Korah has already given a special special ministry by the Lord with fellow Levites. Was he now demanding the priesthood as well? The Lord is the one they are really revolting against and not Aaron. Moses summoned Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, but they refuse to come! They called Egypt a land flowing with milk and honey and they saw themselves as being killed in the wilderness, and treated as Moses' subjects? Moses became very angry and said to the Lord not to accept their grain offering. Moses never took so much as a donkey from them or hurt a single one of them. So each of these men prepared an incense burner, lit the fire, and placed incense on it. Then they all stood at the entrance of the Tabernacle with Moses and Aaron. Meanwhile, Korah had stirred up the entire community against Moses and Aaron, and they all gathered at the Tabernacle entrance. Then the glorious presence of the Lord appeared to the whole community. The Lord said to Moses and Aaron to get away from all these people so that He may instantly destroy them! But Moses and Aaron fell face down on the ground. They pleaded, "Must you be angry with all the people when only one man sins?” And the Lord said to Moses,“Then tell all the people to get away from the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.”So Moses got up and rushed over to the tents of Dathan and Abiram, followed by the elders of Israel. “Quick!” he told the people. “Get away from the tents of these wicked men, and don’t touch anything that belongs to them. If you do, you will be destroyed for their sins.” So all the people stood back from the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. Then Dathan and Abiram came out and stood at the entrances of their tents, together with their wives and children and little ones. And Moses said, “This is how you will know that the Lord has sent me to do all these things that I have done—for I have not done them on my own. If these men die a natural death, or if nothing unusual happens, then the Lord has not sent me. But if the Lord does something entirely new and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them and all their belongings, and they go down alive into the grave, then you will know that these men have shown contempt for the Lord.” He had hardly finished speaking the words when the ground suddenly split open beneath them and swallowed the men, along with their households and all their followers who were standing with them, and everything they owned. They went down alive into the grave, along with all their belongings. The earth closed over them, and they all vanished from among the people of Israel. All the people around them fled when they heard their screams. “The earth will swallow us, too!” they cried. Then fire blazed forth from the Lord and burned up the 250 men who were offering incense. And the Lord said to Moses to tell Eleazar son of Aaron the priest to pull all the incense burners from the fire, for they are holy. Also tell him to scatter the burning coals. 38 Take the incense burners of these men who have sinned at the cost of their lives, and hammer the metal into a thin sheet to overlay the altar. Since these burners were used in the Lord’s presence, they have become holy. Let them serve as a warning to the people of Israel.”So Eleazar the priest collected the 250 bronze incense burners that had been used by the men who died in the fire. 40 This would warn the Israelites that no unauthorized person—no one who was not a descendant of Aaron—should ever enter the Lord’s presence to burn incense. If anyone did, the same thing would happen to him as happened to Korah and his follower. The very next morning the whole community of Israel began muttering again against Moses and Aaron, saying, “You have killed the Lord’s people!” As the community gathered to protest against Moses and Aaron, they turned toward the Tabernacle and saw that the cloud had covered it, and the glorious presence of the Lord appeared. Moses and Aaron came and stood in front of the Tabernacle, and the Lord said to Moses, “Get away from all these people so that I can instantly destroy them!” But Moses and Aaron fell face down on the ground. And Moses tells Aaron to quickly take an incense burner and place burning coals on it from the altar. Lay incense on it, and carry it out among the people to purify them and make them right with the Lord. The Lord’s anger is blazing against them—the plague has already begun. Aaron did as Moses told him and ran out among the people. The plague had already begun to strike down the people. Aaron burned the incense and purified the people. He stood between the dead and the living, and the plague stopped. But 14,700 people died in that plague, in addition to those who had died in the affair involving Korah. Because the plague had stopped, Aaron returned to Moses at the entrance of the Tabernacle.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Korah, son of Izhar, son of Kohath, son of Levi, taketh both Dathan and Abiram sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth, sons of Reuben,
2 and they rise up before Moses, with men of the sons of Israel, two hundred and fifty, princes of the company, called of the convention, men of name,
3 and they are assembled against Moses and against Aaron, and say unto them, `Enough of you! for all the company -- all of them [are] holy, and in their midst [is] Jehovah; and wherefore do ye lift yourselves up above the assembly of Jehovah?'
4 And Moses heareth, and falleth on his face,
5 and he speaketh unto Korah, and unto all his company, saying, `Morning! -- and Jehovah is knowing those who are his, and him who is holy, and hath brought near unto Him; even him whom He doth fix on He bringeth near unto Him.
6 This do: take to yourselves censers, Korah, and all his company,
7 and put in them fire, and put on them perfume, before Jehovah to-morrow, and it hath been, the man whom Jehovah chooseth, he [is] the holy one; -- enough of you, sons of Levi.'
8 And Moses saith unto Korah, `Hear ye, I pray you, sons of Levi;
9 is it little to you that the God of Israel hath separated you from the company of Israel to bring you near unto Himself, to do the service of the tabernacle of Jehovah, and to stand before the company to serve them? --
10 yea, He doth bring thee near, and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee -- and ye have sought also the priesthood!
11 Therefore, thou and all thy company who are met [are] against Jehovah; and Aaron, what [is] he, that ye murmur against him?'
12 And Moses sendeth to call for Dathan and for Abiram sons of Eliab, and they say, `We do not come up;
13 is it little that thou hast brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to put us to death in a wilderness that thou also certainly makest thyself prince over us?
14 Yea, unto a land flowing with milk and honey thou hast not brought us in, nor dost thou give to us an inheritance of field and vineyard; the eyes of these men dost thou pick out? we do not come up.'
15 And it is very displeasing to Moses, and he saith unto Jehovah, `Turn not Thou unto their present; not one ass from them have I taken, nor have I afflicted one of them.'
16 And Moses saith unto Korah, `Thou and all thy company, be ye before Jehovah, thou, and they, and Aaron, to-morrow;
17 and take ye each his censer, and ye have put on them perfume, and brought near before Jehovah, each his censer, two hundred and fifty censers; and thou and Aaron, each his censer.'
18 And they take each his censer, and put on them fire, and lay on them perfume, and they stand at the opening of the tent of meeting, with Moses and Aaron.
19 And Korah assembleth against them all the company unto the opening of the tent of meeting, and the honour of Jehovah is seen by all the company.
20 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
21 `Be ye separated from the midst of this company, and I consume them in a moment;'
22 and they fall on their faces, and say, `God, God of the spirits of all flesh -- the one man sinneth, and against all the company Thou art wroth!'
23 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
24 `Speak unto the company, saying, Go ye up from round about the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.'
25 And Moses riseth, and goeth unto Dathan and Abiram, and the elders of Israel go after him,
26 and he speaketh unto the company, saying, `Turn aside, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and come not against anything that they have, lest ye be consumed in all their sins.'
27 And they go up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan and Abiram, from round about, and Dathan, and Abiram have come out, standing at the opening of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their infants.
28 And Moses saith, `By this ye do know that Jehovah hath sent me to do all these works, that [they are] not from my own heart;
29 if according to the death of all men these die -- or the charge of all men is charged upon them -- Jehovah hath not sent me;
30 and if a strange thing Jehovah do, and the ground hath opened her mouth and swallowed them, and all that they have, and they have gone down alive to Sheol -- then ye have known that these men have despised Jehovah.'
31 And it cometh to pass at his finishing speaking all these words, that the ground which [is] under them cleaveth,
32 and the earth openeth her mouth, and swalloweth them, and their houses, and all the men who [are] for Korah, and all the goods,
33 and they go down, they, and all that they have, alive to Sheol, and the earth closeth over them, and they perish from the midst of the assembly;
34 and all Israel who [are] round about them have fled at their voice, for they said, `Lest the earth swallow us;'
35 and fire hath come out from Jehovah, and consumeth the two hundred and fifty men bringing near the perfume.
36 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
37 `Say unto Eleazar son of Aaron the priest, and he lifteth up the censers from the midst of the burning, and the fire scatter thou yonder, for they have been hallowed,
38 [even] the censers of these sinners against their own souls; and they have made them spread-out plates, a covering for the altar, for they have brought them near before Jehovah, and they are hallowed; and they are become a sign to the sons of Israel.'
39 And Eleazar the priest taketh the brazen censers which they who are burnt had brought near, and they spread them out, a covering for the altar --
40 a memorial to the sons of Israel, so that a stranger who is not of the seed of Aaron doth not draw near to make a perfume before Jehovah, and is not as Korah, and as his company, -- as Jehovah hath spoken by the hand of Moses to him.
41 And all the company of the sons of Israel murmur, on the morrow, against Moses and against Aaron, saying, `Ye -- ye have put to death the people of Jehovah.'
42 And it cometh to pass, in the company being assembled against Moses and against Aaron, that they turn towards the tent of meeting, and lo, the cloud hath covered it, and the honour of Jehovah is seen;
43 and Moses cometh -- Aaron also -- unto the front of the tent of meeting.
44 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,
45 `Get you up from the midst of this company, and I consume them in a moment;' and they fall on their faces,
46 and Moses saith unto Aaron, `Take the censer, and put on it fire from off the altar, and place perfume, and go, hasten unto the company, and make atonement for them, for the wrath hath gone out from the presence of Jehovah -- the plague hath begun.'
47 And Aaron taketh as Moses hath spoken, and runneth unto the midst of the assembly, and lo, the plague hath begun among the people; and he giveth the perfume, and maketh atonement for the people,
48 and standeth between the dead and the living, and the plague is restrained;
49 and those who die by the plague are fourteen thousand and seven hundred, apart from those who die for the matter of Korah;
50 and Aaron turneth back unto Moses, unto the opening of the tent of meeting, and the plague hath been restrained.
Last edited by Guest on Thu May 23, 2013 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why do you keep quoting whole chapters from the Bible without providing any commentaries from any of those chapters or verses from the Bible???
This is historic data. I present a synopsis of Youngs literal translation of the chapter in question. When we move beyond absolute historic data to the prophetic and allegorical, then I will include further explanation. But the reality is, that what is ---- is. If you do not understand something, please let me know and I will provide a further explanation. But I must assume that the readers are in full agreement with what I have presented or they would say that they disagree ---- where, why, and how. As it is, I am told that I am just reprinting what everyone already understands and agrees with. In fact, I am told that there is no reason for me to continue as they get it ------------ or so it would seem.
Why do you keep quoting whole chapters from the Bible without providing any commentaries from any of those chapters or verses from the Bible???
This is historic data. I present a synopsis of Youngs literal translation of the chapter in question. When we move beyond absolute historic data to the prophetic and allegorical, then I will include further explanation. But the reality is, that what is ---- is. If you do not understand something, please let me know and I will provide a further explanation. But I must assume that the readers are in full agreement with what I have presented or they would say that they disagree ---- where, why, and how. As it is, I am told that I am just reprinting what everyone already understands and agrees with. In fact, I am told that there is no reason for me to continue as they get it ------------ or so it would seem.
I disagree. With all of it. So, please explain it all.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:I disagree. With all of it. So, please explain it all.
First, you must explain why it is you disagree with all of it.
Because it's all man made myth and legend mingled with some history - God has had nothing to do with its production.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
