Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt - NYT

[_annie]

Yes, at least Mattsson claims it in the Mormon Stories interview.

[_BartBurk]

I suspect a Mormon with a spiritual testimony would not be persuaded at all by anything read on the internet. These people were probably just tired of paying tithing.

[_malkie]

I suspect a Mormon with a spiritual testimony would not be persuaded at all by anything read on the internet. These people were probably just tired of paying tithing.

Perhaps they also wanted to sin?

[_BartBurk]

I suspect a Mormon with a spiritual testimony would not be persuaded at all by anything read on the internet. These people were probably just tired of paying tithing.

Perhaps they also wanted to sin?

Not paying tithing is already a great sin.

[_Chap]

I suspect a Mormon with a spiritual testimony would not be persuaded at all by anything read on the internet. These people were probably just tired of paying tithing.

No True Mormon would ever be persuaded to doubt by anything seen on the internet.

These Swedish members were persuaded to doubt by things they saw on the internet.

Therefore they were not True Mormons.

QED

See 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

[_BartBurk]

I suspect a Mormon with a spiritual testimony would not be persuaded at all by anything read on the internet. These people were probably just tired of paying tithing.

No True Mormon would ever be persuaded to doubt by anything seen on the internet.

These Swedish members were persuaded to doubt by things they saw on the internet.

Therefore they were not True Mormons.

QED

See 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

As a former member who was given the resign or be ex'd ultimatum I kind of know where all of these people are coming from. Someday instead of these kinds of ultimatums the church will truly learn to have Christlike patience with people with doubts, questions and criticisms -- they may find that a little more tolerance might go a long way to keeping some people in the fold and having others find their way back. I know a lot of Catholics who became disenchanted with or were critical of Catholicism, eventually found their way back, and were welcomed home with a simple anonymous confession to a priest.

[_Chap]

I suspect a Mormon with a spiritual testimony would not be persuaded at all by anything read on the internet. These people were probably just tired of paying tithing.

No True Mormon would ever be persuaded to doubt by anything seen on the internet.

These Swedish members were persuaded to doubt by things they saw on the internet.

Therefore they were not True Mormons.

QED

See 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

As a former member who was given the resign or be ex'd ultimatum I kind of know where all of these people are coming from. Someday instead of these kinds of ultimatums the church will truly learn to have Christlike patience with people with doubts, questions and criticisms -- they may find that a little more tolerance might go a long way to keeping some people in the fold and having others find their way back. I know a lot of Catholics who became disenchanted with or were critical of Catholicism, eventually found their way back, and were welcomed home with a simple anonymous confession to a priest.

I do not think that the Swedish Mormons would have been converted into satisfied members of the Mormon flock by 'Christlike patience', however appropriate that virtue might be in those leading a church named after Jesus Christ.

Those people wanted answers to hard questions. Absent those answers, their problems were not going to go away. In the end, the CoCJoLDS seems to have realised that, recognised that the church had in fact no answers to the questions asked, and decided to draw a barrier round the infection of doubt by excommunicating the doubters.

And if the church leaders have no answers but want at all costs to retain members, that might seem like a plausible policy to adopt.

[_cwald]

As a former member who was given the resign or be ex'd ultimatum I kind of know where all of these people are coming from. ...

Indeed.

[_DarkHelmet]

I suspect a Mormon with a spiritual testimony would not be persuaded at all by anything read on the internet. These people were probably just tired of paying tithing.

I think this is the bigger issue the church will face. I think many people will stay active to keep their family happy, and because they think the social aspects of the church are nice, but they will refuse to pay tithing. I think the church will see tithing decrease at a faster rate than attendance. The church screwed up by teaching that tithing is a commandment, a test of obedience, a sign of worthiness, a temple recommend requirement, fire insurance, a leap of faith followed by faith promoting stories "Brother Jones lost his job, then he paid tithing, and the next day he found a job." When people stop believing in the church's truth claims, all those tithing stories sound ridiculous, and it looks like just another scam to get your money. If the church humbly asked for charitable donations to help pay for the buildings and activities, people might continue to pay when they stop believing but remain active.

[_BartBurk]

I do not think that the Swedish Mormons would have been converted into satisfied members of the Mormon flock by 'Christlike patience', however appropriate that virtue might be in those leading a church named after Jesus Christ.

Those people wanted answers to hard questions. Absent those answers, their problems were not going to go away. In the end, the CoCJoLDS seems to have realised that, recognised that the church had in fact no answers to the questions asked, and decided to draw a barrier round the infection of doubt by excommunicating the doubters.

And if the church leaders have no answers but want at all costs to retain members, that might seem like a plausible policy to adopt.

I'm not so sure. There have been times when I have thought about going back for social reasons in spite of all of the problems. Unfortunately, they make it fairly difficult to return compared to what your normal member of another church would have to do. The only thing I find comparable is a Catholic going through the annulment process. Maybe the Jehovah's Witnesses have something akin to what ex-Mormons go through.