Always Singular God Plural Persons

[_maklelan]

E. Calvin Beisner

God in Three Persons

The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:
The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

Funny that it took a few centuries, a new philosophical theory, and several debates before "The Christian Church" managed to first identify this "teaching of the New Testament. Fundamentalists might be surprised to find out that within biblical scholarship the Trinity is acknowledged to be the final product of centuries of development and evolution that didn't really begin until the second century.

The doctrine of the incarnation----- that the Son of God, the Word ( John 1:1 ) became man ( John ; Rom. 1:3 ) uniting in the single person of the Son two distinct and complete natures, diety and humanity.
The sinless of Christ---- that he lived as the perfect man to fulfill God’s plan for all humanity. ( Heb 2:6-18; 4:14, 15 )
The sacrificial death of Christ---- to atone for sins of all men ( 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:; Matt 20:28; 1 Cor 6:20 )
The resurrection of Christ---- that after his death, Christ rose bodily from the grave, showing his triumph over sin and death, as the first fruit, and hence the promise, of resurrection to all who have faith in him ( 1 ; Rom 6:3-11 )
Salvation by Grace through Faith--- that justification before God, and hence salvation from punishment and life with God, are available only as a gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:6; 3:16 Acts 4:10; John 8:24 ) pp 19-20
When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.
We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

No such doctrine is detectable anywhere in the New Testament. What you have to do is cherry pick a few disparate texts, demand the presupposition of a few critical propositions, and then impose a certain interpretive framework over the text, then you can find the blurry outlines of the Trinity. That should tell you exactly where the doctrine actually comes from.

More excerpts from Calvin Beisner’s book “God in three Persons”

It is this relation of Christ to the Father and the Spirit which Dr John Robinson takes as one of the strong-est indications of triunity in the Godhead:
At the Incarnation… the Godhead is revealed for the first time as existing in three distinct relationships. It is these differences of relation that make necessary a doctrine of the Trinity, not differences of “character” or modes working. The Old Testament, too knew God in different “characters” but it was not forced to a Trinity Theology…We cannot begin with God creating, God redeeming, God sanctifying, or any such collection of attributes, and proceed to identify these with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…Rather, one must start with the three Persons, no more and no less, which are required by the three relations at the Incarnation
When we have said these three things, then---that there is but one God, that the Father and the son and the spirit is each God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person---We have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.
God in Three Persons
Page 40

Perhaps the most famous Trinitarian reference from the second century is the statement of Theophilus [ 116-181], another writer who is only shortly removed from the last of the apostles. His is the first use of the word “trinity” in Christian literature which is extant:
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His Wisdoms.” Vol 2 pp 100 101

And, of course, in early Christianity (and still today), God's "Wisdom" was Jesus Christ, not the Holy Ghost. Oops. Also, if you read the rest of that passage, he then goes on to say it is supposed to be four: God, his Word, Wisdom, Man. This isn't the Trinity as you understand it at all.

Epistles to Autolycus,II WV
Page 53

The concept of Trinity in unity, three distinct persons who are the one God, is then firmly entrenched in Christian thought by the middle to second century
Page 54

Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three Co-herent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are one essence, not one Person, as it is said, “ I and my Father are One “ in respect of unity of substance, not singularity of number.

Justin Martyr agrees with early Christianity in pointing out that it's actually a unity of will, not number. This is the point of John 17, which, by the way, three times insists that humanity is to become one with God and Jesus exactly as they are one with each other. Does this mean salvation is about becoming a part of the Trinity?

Roberts and Donaldson, anti-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, p. 621, against Praxeas, xxv
Page 57 God in three Persons

Conclusion
The New Testament teaches us that there is one God and that this God is three distinct persons, the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and that these persons are co-equal and co-eternal. This is also the only possible interpretation of the Nicene Creed as it was intended by its authors. Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity as taught in the Nicene Creed is an accurate representation of the teachings of the New Testament” pp 155-156
E. Calvin Beisner
God in Three Persons

There was only one scripture shared in that entire segment of text, and it flatly rejected the contextual interpretation in favor of an interpretation that did not exist for centuries after it was written. C'mon, man, this is bush league.

[_Mittens]

Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity in the godhead includes the three following particulars, viz. (a) There is only one God, one divine nature; (b) but in this divine nature there is the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as three (subjects or persons); and (c) these three-have equally, and in common with one another, the nature and perfection of supreme divinity. It was the custom in former times for theologians to blend their own speculations and those of others with the statement of the Bible doctrine. It is customary now to exhibit first the simple doctrine of the Bible, and afterwards, in a separate part, the speculations of the learned respecting it.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


TRINITY
The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)


Trinity
used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias
, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.
(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)




we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in TRINITY The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)




1. we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in technical terms, supplied by philosophical reflection; but the doctrine stated is a genuinely Scriptural doctrine.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being [ all Synonyms ]


It's interesting how the Book of Mormon teaches the Trinity also, in fact the Book of Mormon had to be written by a person who was defending the 4th and 5th century Creeds.

Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, [size=150]unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God,[/size] in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to [size=150]the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God.[/size] Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris


2 Nephi 31:
21And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven—Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.

Translated by Joseph Smith, Jun.

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Mosiah 5:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay , and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.


Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent , may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all . Amen.

Moroni 8:18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from ball eternity to all eternity.


and the Mormon founders taught the Trinity


1. Discourses of Brigham Young, p.30
The Holy Ghost, we believe, is one of the characters that form the Trinity, or the Godhead.

1. Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p.61
Now I repeat-the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, he constitutes the third person in the Trinity, the Godhead

1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.312
In our Articles of Faith we declare our belief in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost-in other words, the Trinity. We accept the scriptural doctrine that they are separate and distinct personages. This is one distinguishing and, to some, disturbing doctrine of the Church.

1. James R. Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, Vol.4, p.264
From these statements, and from many others that might be quoted, it is clear that Adam and Christ are two persons-not the same Person. It is erroneous doctrine to consider them one and the same person, for Jesus is the Christ, a member of the Trinity, the God-head, and to whom Adam, the father of the human family upon this earth, is amenable. Adam will have to account for his stewardship to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whose blood atones for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam.
James R. Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, Vol.6, p.236


1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313
Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.
J. Reuben Clark Jr. Second Counselor to the LDS First Presidency speaking to diversified audience in the mid 1940s speaks of God in terms of the Trinity-God has revealed to us that he is the Father of all, and that he loves and cares forth righteous everywhere, and seeks ever to bring back the wayward to his ways. He has made known that Jesus is the Christ, the Only Begotten of the Father, the Redeemer of the World, the First Fruits of the Resurrection. He has shown to us that as Jesus died, lay in the tomb, and was resurrected, so shall it be with every son and daughter of God. He has manifested to us that he is a person, that Christ is another person, and that the Holy Ghost is a third person, and that these make the Trinity of the Godhead


Another explanation is found in Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose
Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covanants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:
General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.


http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... ermon.html

[_maklelan]

Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity in the godhead includes the three following particulars, viz. (a) There is only one God, one divine nature; (b) but in this divine nature there is the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as three (subjects or persons); and (c) these three-have equally, and in common with one another, the nature and perfection of supreme divinity. It was the custom in former times for theologians to blend their own speculations and those of others with the statement of the Bible doctrine. It is customary now to exhibit first the simple doctrine of the Bible, and afterwards, in a separate part, the speculations of the learned respecting it.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


TRINITY
The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

And the "trinitarian formula" is a biblical formula that was adopted by trinitarians. The formula in and of itself makes no trinitarian claims whatsoever.

Trinity
used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias
, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4;

This only says "one YHWH."

1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6;

I've posted elsewhere concerning these verses:

Deutero-Isaiah is not denying the ontological existence of other deities; rather, he is denying their efficacy and legitimacy.[2] The language used by Deutero-Isaiah and Deuteronomy (“I am and there is no other,” “there is none beside me,” etc.) is also used in reference to Babylon, Moab (Isa 47:8, 10), and Nineveh (Zeph 2:15). The vernacular is placed in the mouths of Israel’s opponents, but the point is clear: these cities are not denying the existence of other cities, but rather that they are at all relevant in comparison (see Ps 89:6 and Isa 40:25). Deuteronomy 32 provides further indication that this is the correct reading. In v. 21 YHWH states, “They made me jealous with a non-god (בלא־אל) . . . so I will make them jealous with a non-people (בלא־עם).” The nation being referenced (Assyria-Babylon) is not one that does not exist, but one that is inconsequential in the eyes of YHWH. That this is part of the same propaganda is supported by v. 39 (ואין אלהים עמדי) and by Isa 40:17: “All the nations are as nothing (כאין) before him, he considers them as less than nothing (מאפס) and deserted (ותהו).”

That the authors of this rhetoric in no way deny the existence of other deities is also made clear by the proximity of explicit mentions of other gods. Deut 32:8–9 and 43, for instance, mention the sons of El and command “all the gods” to bow before YHWH, respectively. In Deut 4:19 the gods of the nations are explicitly said to have been established by YHWH for the worship of the people of those nations. Divine council imagery is also present in Isaiah 40 and 45.

If Deutero-Isaiah and Deuteronomy do not reject the existence of other deities, their theology is not monotheistic, but rather henotheistic, or monolatrous, or whatever you want to call it. It accepts the existence of other deities, but avers their incomparability with YHWH.

Mark 12:29,32;

Back to the Shema.

John 10:30).

And John 17 explains the nature of that oneness. It is a oneness of glory, not of ontology. After all, it also states that the saved will become one with God exactly as Jesus is one with God. Does that mean you become part of the Trinity?

2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.
(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture.

And this particular "truth" of scripture was never found in the actual words of scripture until centuries after Christ's death.

The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions;

That were never identified until political necessity demanded a reconciliation of the different ideas within a Greco-Roman philosophical context.

when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in TRINITY The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

I already addressed this "formula."

1. we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in technical terms, supplied by philosophical reflection; but the doctrine stated is a genuinely Scriptural doctrine.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being [ all Synonyms ]

No scriptures shared here.

It's interesting how the Book of Mormon teaches the Trinity also,

Yeah, not interested.

[_LittleNipper]

Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.

Below is the best symbol for the Trinity we are aware of (click to expand):
Trinity symbol



While he is not the author of every article on GotQuestions.org, for citation purposes, you may reference our CEO, S. Michael Houdmann.



Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bib ... z2av0L49cr

[_LittleNipper]

The Trinity Is Jewish

torah scroll

By Rachmiel Frydland

Most modern Jewish people seem to have made their "peace" with Jesus of Nazareth. Some consider Him to be a great, Jew, or even the greatest Jew who ever lived. Some of our Jewish leaders, as Dr.Heinrich Graetz and Dr. Joseph Klausner, compliment Him on His teaching. Some admire His parables and purity, as Moses Montefiore; and Some as Sholem Asch and others, even consider Him to be the Messiah of the Gentiles. Today we often meet Jewish people who acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah for Jew and Gentile alike; and some are even willing to share these convictions with other Jewish people. What then holds such Jewish people back from joining with us and accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior?

The hindrance some have expressed to the writer of this article is the reluctance to accept the fact that Jesus is supernatural. Moreover, from childhood we have been inculcated with Maimonides' Thirteen Principles one of which is:

I firmly believe that the Creator, blessed be his name, is One: that there is no oneness in any form like his; & that he alone was, is, & ever will be our God.

We have been thus brought up to think that if we believe that God is One, then this idea excludes any idea of God manifesting Himself through Jesus the Messiah. This Christian concept of God's triunity seemed to us to be a Gentile and pagan idea. NOT SO! Christians, as well as Jewish people, must believe in One God. There is no other. The God of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob is the God of the Jewish people and of the Christians. The Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament are authoritative for the Jew and for the Christian. In them is found the confession that

is authoritative for all of us.

Hear. O Israel. the LORD our God, the LORD IS ONE. Deuteronomy 6:4

TRIUNITY IN TANAKH (Old Testament)

While it is universally admitted by both Jews and Christians that God is One and that there is no one beside Him, we are also compelled to acknowledge that the triunity of God is clearly taught in the Torah, the Prophets, and in the Writings --- that is in the whole Tanakh, the Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament, & the New Testament. Not only in the Tanakh but also in the Talmudical & Rabbinical writings this concept is well known. Space does not permit us to present proofs from all the sources in this short article. Here we present just a few challenging proofs:

THE TORAH: When God (Elohim) create the world He wanted to make absolutely clear to His creation that He is not some abstract mathematical unitarian principle with no analogy in all creation, as some of our philosophers tried to present Him under Aristotelian influence. Instead we read in the holy Torah these words:

And (Elohim) said. Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,
& over all the earth. Genesis 1:26

Elohim made man, a being composed of a triunity --- body, soul and spirit, in the image of God;
and to make this more clear God reveals Himself in His plural form of Elohim and says,

"Let us make man."

Even those of our rabbis who do not accept as yet the triunity of God, realize that this verse is clear support for such teaching. Thus in Midrash Rabbah on Genesis we find the following comments on the verse: Rabbi Samuel bar Nahman in the name of Rabbi Jonathan said, that at the time when Moses wrote the Torah; writing a portion of it daily, when he came to this Verse which says, "And Elohim said let us make man in our image after our likeness," Moses said, Master of the Universe why do you give herewith an excuse to the sectarians (who believe in the triunity of God). God answered Moses, You write and whoever wants to err let him err.

But surely God did not make Moses to write the whole Scriptures in order to make people err. but rather to show them the right way and the right revelation, namely that the One God is a triune God who calls Himself Elohim and who says. Let us make man.

THE PROPHETS: There are many Scripture verses which show clearly that God manifested Himself also as the Word by which He created heaven and earth and by which He leads and directs creation. He also manifested Himself as the Ruakh Hakodesh, the Holy Spirit, who inspired the prophets of God and who did mighty miracles through the great judges of Israel, Gideon, Samson, and David. We want to point out one Scripture which compels us to admit the triunity of God. Isaiah the prophet speaks in the name of God and says:

Come near unto me. hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning: from the time that it was,there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Isaiah 48:16



Here God calls the people to come to Him, but He is sent by the Lord GOD and His Spirit. Exactly the same teaching as we have found in the Torah. we find also in the teachings of God's prophets. How else can it be? The same God who commanded Moses to manifest His triunitarian nature commands also the Hebrew Prophets to do the same.



THE WRITINGS: Very clearly we find the same teaching about God in the Psalms and in the other writings of the Hebrew Scriptures. We read in Psalm 2 where the Holy Spirit, the Ruakh Hakodesh, speaks through David and says:

I will declare the decree: The LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son:

this day have I begotten thee. Psalm 2:7

Here is the Holy Spirit speaking through David and instructing David, that the LORD, which is in Hebrew the ineffable name of Jehovah (which we pronounce as Adonai, has a Son who is begotten of God in a most supernatural way. Maybe King David himself did not well understand the words that he was commanded to write by the Holy Spirit; but as Moses and Isaiah, he obeyed. Be wrote this down for us so that there be no misunderstanding. God who is almighty manifests Himself as a triunity, leaving us no doubt as to His nature.

IS TRINITY JEWISH?

But is such a concept Jewish? Is it not some Gentile or pagan concept that has somehow crept into our Holy Scriptures as some extreme liberalists would like to tell us? No, this was and still is a Jewish conception of God creating and dealing with His creation and His people Israel in a triune way. This quotation bears it out: Exodus 19 starts with the words, "In the third month." This is explained by the words of Proverbs 22:20, "Have I not written to thee excellent (Hebrew, threefold) things in counsels and knowledge." On this Rabbi Joshua bar Nehemiah said that this is the Torah whose letters are threefold, alf, bet, g(i)ml, and everything is a Trinity: The Torah is Trinitarian, for it is composed of the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings. The Mishna (talmudical learning) is a trinity composed of Talmud (learning) halakhot (daily Jewish laws) and haggadot (historical items). The mediator consisted of a trinity of Miriam, Moses, & Aaron. Prayers are a trinity of morning, afternoon, and evening prayers. Israel is a trinity consisting of priests, Levites and Israelites. The name Moses in Hebrew consists of three letters. He is of the tribe of Levi, which again is in the Hebrew three letters. from the seed of the Patriarchs who are a trinity of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; in the third month which is Sivan, after Nisan & Iyar on mount Sin whose letters are three as it is written. "And they rested in the wilderness of Sin.".(Midrash Tanhuma on Exodus 19)

If, according to our rabbis', God has made everything and arranged everything in a Trinitarian way. then it must also be Jewish and biblical to know that God, Himself is a Trinity. This He is and has manifested Himself as the Savior, Messiah, and Son of God in the person of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah. He then sent down the Holy Spirit, the Ruakh Hakodesh, on the Disciples in the third month, of the Feast of Shavuot, the feast of perfection, celebrated after counting seven times seven.

TRINITY AND COMMON SENSE

But. can three be one? Does not common sense rebel against such a statement? Must we not state categorically that God is either One or Three? Not so. As a matter of fact everything you come in contact with is not a mathematical concept of one, but usually an item composed of a trinity. The ancient Greek philosopher reasoned out the theory of atoms by simply watching a black cow, eating green grass, and then giving white milk. All things are composed of millions and billions of atoms; but the atom itself is a trinity of a proton, electron and nucleus. Perhaps we could best express it in the words of Dr. Henry Heydt:

In Romans 1:20 Paul uses the creation of the cosmos as demonstrating this Godhead (theiotes]. The universe ... is an absolute triunity of space, time, and matter. Each of these in turn is an absolute triunity. Space consists of length, breadth, and depth or height: time is future, present, and past; matter is energy, motion, and phenomena. Here we have not merely an illustration of three in one --- as in the case of light, heat, and ultra-violet rays of the sunbeam, or the manifestation of H2O as liquid, ice, and steam --- but an absolute trinity composed of three absolute triunities.

WHAT IS THE MEANING TO YOU ?

We now have only to answer the question. "What does it all matter?" The answer is that it matters very much. It proves the truth of God's Word. The most important thing is, what the Jewish Messiah Jesus (Yeshua) said, "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Do you want peace in your heart & peace with your Creator? Receive this gift of God; confess your sins and believe in God's Son, the Korban (sacrifice) for your sins. Then you will be saved & have perfect peace in your heart. "But as many as received him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." (John 1:12)

Reprinted by permission of
The Messianic Literature Outreach www.messianicliterature.org/


For further information contact:
hebrew menorah4.jpg

[_maklelan]

Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it.

Which is the most conspicuous proof that it's nonsense. Where does a doctrine come from if it's not rational? It just has to be asserted based on some kind of authority. It obviously doesn't come from the Bible. If it said "this is the Trinity:" and then gave a comprehensive explanation that squared with Nicea, you might be able to say "it's irrational, but there it is." When you say it is the product of inferences drawn from a constellation of biblical texts, you acknowledge that those inferences are not rational. The reason is because the doctrine has priority, with the biblical texts only manipulated to serve the doctrine. That's the reason it's inexplicable.

The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.

Nowhere does it teach these three things, all together or separate.

The Bible also teaches that there is only one God.

Nowhere does it teach this. It rhetorically asserts it in places where it's railing against the gods of the nations, but it does it within the context of an ideology that acknowledges the existence of numerous other deities, like angels, Satan, and divine kings.

Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

That's exactly what it means, and no amount of "Nu-uh!" can change that.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4;

This says "our God is one YHWH," not "there is one God."

1 Corinthians 8:4;

Oh, this text is a lot more complicated than that. Not only does v. 5 state that there are many gods, but 1 Cor 10:20 quotes Deut 32:17 in arguing that what they sacrifice to idols "they sacrifice to devils, not to God." Of course, Deut 32:17 also refers to those "devils" as "gods" (אלהים). If Paul acknowledges the existence of devils, and 1 Cor 10:20 shows he does, then he very obviously does acknowledge the existence of other gods. He just doesn't like to call them "gods," but that's just terminology.

Galatians 3:20;

This refers only to God's own unity, not his ontological exclusivity. The same formula is found in Songs 6:9, where the author says his "dove" and his "undefiled" is "one." It doesn't mean she's the only dove and undefiled in the world, it just means she's the only one for the author. This is the exact same rhetoric as the "God is one" rhetoric we find in the Hunter Biden and New Testament.

1 Timothy 2:5).

This is no different from me saying there's only one football team, or there's only one James Bond. The rhetoric means there's only one that matters to me. It doesn't mean there's only one in existence. You're overinterpreting the rhetoric of the Bible.

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two.

Actually the dual is somewhat rare in Hebrew, and usually occurs with specific nouns that use it as a kind of frozen formula. The plural doesn't necessarily refer to more than two.

While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God.

In no way does it denote that. What it denotes is the plurality of gods.

The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

Absolutely false. The plural noun is a concretized abstract plural. It is common to all Semitic languages, including with the generic word for "god."

In Isaiah 48:16

This is YHWH speaking about Cyrus, as v. 14 makes clear.

and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

This is the author speaking.

Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking.

No, it's just the author of Luke interpreting it messianically. That in no way means that's what it originally meant. You'll also notice if you compare the two that they're different. The author of Luke is quoting the Septuagint. Why do you reject the legitimacy of the Septuagint if the author of Luke insists Jesus used it?

Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

Of course, they could also just be interpreted as showing three distinct beings.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24;

No, this is not LORD and Lord, the word is YHWH both times, and the second one is part of an interpolation. Learn Hebrew.

Hosea 1:4).

Hosea 1:4:

And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little [while], and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

Where do you find YHWH mentioned twice?

The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12;

And this refers to the Israelite king, same as Ps 89:26-27. V. 6 makes it clear that this is the king being anointed. In the ancient Near East kings were thought to be adopted by gods at their accession to the throne. I've already directed you to multiple sources that show what these texts mean.

Proverbs 30:2-4).

You don't understand what those verses are saying at all, evidently.

The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12).

Yes, God's spirit was thought to be a separate being.

God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7;

As I have pointed out to you multiple times, these psalms are explicitly describing the king, and the vocative "God" in v. 7 immediately refers to that God's God. Is Jesus a separate God from his Father? That's what Ps 45:6-7 must indicate if you think Jesus is the subject.

Hebrews 1:8-9).

This is just a messianic reading of the Psalm. It has no bearing on what the text actually meant.

In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

Or another being.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14;

No, John 1:1 is better interpreted "the word was divine." I discussed this long ago here.

Romans 9:5;

That reading demands a specific translation of θεὸς εὐλογητὸς, and a specific translation that is not preferable. A better reading is "who is God blessed over all . . ."

Colossians 2:9;

This only means he was fully divine. Nothing here indicates Jesus is God himself unless you insist that the Father exhausts the category of deity, which is basically begging the question.

Hebrews 1:8;

See above.

1 John 5:20).

Here is 1 Jo 5:20:

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

The "he" of the last clause refers to "him who is true," of whom the Son of God has come to give us understanding. In no way whatsoever does this suggest that Jesus is God.

The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4;

Nothing at all requires us to understand the referent of v. 3 to be identical to v. 4.

1 Corinthians 3:16).

This is 1 Cor 3:16:

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst?

Nothing in this suggests the Spirit is God. The fact is that the Spirit was the last entity that was determined by early Christians to need to be included in the Trinity. At first it was only Jesus and God. The notion of including the Holy Ghost didn't come until the 3rd/4th centuries.

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

We cannot understand because it's senseless. It's just a necessary product of the philosophizing that gave us the idea of three persons in one being. We must accept it because the rest of the trinity demands it, not because there's anything rational about it. Here again, the scriptures are subordinated to the doctrine, which did not originate in the scriptures.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

And there's the actual secret of Jesus' relationship to God. He carries God's divine agency, which allows him to act in his name. This was how early Jews and Christians understood it. It doesn't mean he shared his ontology, but just his agency.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

Because it is entirely illogical. That should be a clue.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.

No, that is the Nicean doctrine of the Trinity. The biblical notion is quite distinct.

Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.

Below is the best symbol for the Trinity we are aware of (click to expand):
Trinity symbol

While he is not the author of every article on GotQuestions.org, for citation purposes, you may reference our CEO, S. Michael Houdmann.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bib ... z2av0L49cr

So we have to accept the Trinity despite it being illogical, and only because someone says it's biblical?

[_maklelan]

The Trinity Is Jewish

You respond in full to my previous response to your copy and past job and I'll respond to this. Otherwise I'm saving my time.

[_Mittens]

Defending Mormonism is for a masochist, Historic Christianity is easy to defend


1. Discourses of Brigham Young, p.30
The Holy Ghost, we believe, is one of the characters that form the Trinity, or the Godhead.

1. Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p.61
Now I repeat-the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, he constitutes the third person in the Trinity, the Godhead

1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.312
In our Articles of Faith we declare our belief in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost-in other words, the Trinity. We accept the scriptural doctrine that they are separate and distinct personages. This is one distinguishing and, to some, disturbing doctrine of the Church.

1. James R. Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, Vol.4, p.264
From these statements, and from many others that might be quoted, it is clear that Adam and Christ are two persons-not the same Person. It is erroneous doctrine to consider them one and the same person, for Jesus is the Christ, a member of the Trinity, the God-head, and to whom Adam, the father of the human family upon this earth, is amenable. Adam will have to account for his stewardship to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whose blood atones for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam.
James R. Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, Vol.6, p.236


1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313
Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.
J. Reuben Clark Jr. Second Counselor to the LDS First Presidency speaking to diversified audience in the mid 1940s speaks of God in terms of the Trinity-God has revealed to us that he is the Father of all, and that he loves and cares forth righteous everywhere, and seeks ever to bring back the wayward to his ways. He has made known that Jesus is the Christ, the Only Begotten of the Father, the Redeemer of the World, the First Fruits of the Resurrection. He has shown to us that as Jesus died, lay in the tomb, and was resurrected, so shall it be with every son and daughter of God. He has manifested to us that he is a person, that Christ is another person, and that the Holy Ghost is a third person, and that these make the Trinity of the Godhead


Another explanation is found in Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose
Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covanants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:
General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

[_maklelan]

Defending Mormonism is for a masochist, Historic Christianity is easy to defend

Another meaningless puppet show that you have no intention of backing up with anything other than further puppet shows.

[_SteelHead]

Historic Christianity is no easier to defend than any other religion. For starters what is historic Christianity?