False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

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_grindael
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _grindael »

maklelan wrote:
grindael wrote:I can say the same thing Daniel. I've been engaging for years also. So what?


I've been doing it professionally.

grindael wrote:So you need me to be a scholar when it's convenient for you, but not the other way around? Silly.


You're not a scholar, and I never need you to pretend to be one.

grindael wrote:And no one else is going to search out all your old comments on different threads either. You called Jesus a liar on this thread, but you won't say if you believe it. You still haven't answered that question. What do you believe Daniel?


I've directly answered your question multiple times. I can't help it if you don't like the answer. These continued rhetorical puppet shows aren't going to suddenly convince me you've got my number.


Professionally? LOL now that is a ridiculous argument. You are not a scholar of the Fundamentalist persuasion so you are not one either. Your argument is all kinds of silly. You just can't answer simple questions, and want to try and make is seem that someone has to be a "scholar" to know a subject better than someone else. That is ridiculous and you know it. And how about rebutting the scholar I did quote? You see, you are only playing word games here, using arguments that your own faith does not believe.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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_maklelan
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _maklelan »

grindael wrote:Exactly. Why are you here Daniel? You are defending the Mormon Church and Joseph Smith and saying that they are not understood. But they believe that Jesus did not lie. They believe that the Tyre prophecy was fulfilled. But you are calling Jesus a liar. That is exactly what you did. You are doing to them, what you just said I was doing to you. And the questions you asked, have nothing to do with the topic at all. You called Jesus a liar. Why won't you answer if you believe he lied?


If you're going to keep strumming this one chord I'm not really interested. You're also being hypocritical. How about you respond to your ridiculous mistake about identifying Roman ruins as the ruins from Alexander's siege? Obviously you can't since you were monstrously wrong but could never admit it. So you're just going to use this ridiculous notion that I didn't answer your questions as a distraction from an actual issue.
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_grindael
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _grindael »

maklelan wrote:
grindael wrote:Exactly. Why are you here Daniel? You are defending the Mormon Church and Joseph Smith and saying that they are not understood. But they believe that Jesus did not lie. They believe that the Tyre prophecy was fulfilled. But you are calling Jesus a liar. That is exactly what you did. You are doing to them, what you just said I was doing to you. And the questions you asked, have nothing to do with the topic at all. You called Jesus a liar. Why won't you answer if you believe he lied?


If you're going to keep strumming this one chord I'm not really interested. You're also being hypocritical. How about you respond to your ridiculous mistake about identifying Roman ruins as the ruins from Alexander's siege? Obviously you can't since you were monstrously wrong but could never admit it. So you're just going to use this ridiculous notion that I didn't answer your questions as a distraction from an actual issue.


The actual issue Daniel was that you called Jesus a liar. You came here to defend the Mormon Church and Joseph Smith and yet use arguments that your own faith does not believe. You won't answer a simple question if you believe that Jesus is a liar. That is the issue. So, there it is. You call him a liar, putting that into another person's mouth, when you obviously don't believe it yourself, or have no evidence to prove he was. You wont admit if he is a liar by your own standards, by the account in Matthew. That says it all Daniel.
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_grindael
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _grindael »

How about you respond to your ridiculous mistake about identifying Roman ruins as the ruins from Alexander's siege?

Your right, my picture was wrong. This is the correct picture. Thanks for pointing that out. http://generationword.com/images/alexan ... sea_lg.jpg
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _grindael »

(27-6) Ezekiel 26:1–14. A Remarkable Fulfillment of Prophecy

Korihor, the Book of Mormon anti-Christ, told Alma that “no man can know of anything which is to come” because “ye cannot know of things which ye do not see” (Alma 30:13, 15). Again and again in the Old Testament, one can find examples that prove Korihor wrong. The prophets foretold in great detail many future events. Ezekiel’s prophecies concerning Tyre (Tyrus) are some of the most remarkable.

Tyre was situated on the coast about halfway between Carmel in Israel and Beirut in Lebanon.

But it was a peculiar geographic feature of Tyre that gave it its most remarkable prophetic destiny. Merrill F. Unger noted that Tyre “once consisted of two parts—a rocky coast defense of great strength on the mainland, and a city upon a small but well-protected island, about half a mile from the shore” (Unger’s Bible Dictionary, s.v. “Tyre,” p. 1121).

Ezekiel predicted that Nebuchadnezzar would lay siege to Tyre (see Ezekiel 26:7–11), but a skeptic like Korihor might say that this prediction was not remarkable since Nebuchadnezzar was conquering nearly every major city in the area, and Tyre was a particularly ripe plum because of its wealth. But “before a generation had passed away, according to Josephus, Philostratus, and Seder Olam, Nebuchadnezzar came up, as had been predicted [Ezekiel 26:7–15], making a fort, casting a mount, and lifting up the buckler. At the end of thirteen years [about 605 B.C.] he took the city, at least that on the mainland, and Tyre was forgotten seventy years, as had been foretold by Isaiah [23:15].” (Samuel Fallows, ed., The Popular and Critical Bible Encyclopedia and Scriptural Dictionary, s.v. “Tyre,” p. 1682.)

Some of Ezekiel’s peculiar promises seemed to be unfulfilled, including the following:

“I will also scrape her dust from her” (Ezekiel 26:4).

Tyre will become “like the top of a rock” (Ezekiel 26:4).

“It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea” (Ezekiel 26:5).

“They shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water” (Ezekiel 26:12).

“Thou shalt be built no more” (Ezekiel 26:14).

For nearly three hundred years these prophecies appeared to be inaccurate. Nebuchadnezzar conquered the mainland city but was unable to subdue all of Tyre because of its strategic position on the island. After a few decades Tyre regained her wealth and splendor, though the ruined city on the shore was not rebuilt, and the island fortification became the central city.

Then in 332 B.C., Alexander the Great swept out of the northern Mediterranean world. He moved south with his forces and camped on the ruins of ancient Tyre, isolating the inhabitants on the island offshore. Tyre had supposedly made a peaceful alliance with the Greeks, but when Alexander requested permission to bring his troops into Tyre to worship their gods and was refused, he laid siege to Tyre—a difficult task since the city lay on an island a half mile off the shore.

James Hastings described what followed: “The memorable siege began. Alexander built a mole [causeway] 200 ft. wide out towards the island. It was repeatedly destroyed. The defense was desperate and successful, till Alexander invested the city with a fleet of 224 ships. Tyre was stormed, 8000 of her inhabitants massacred, 2000 crucified on the shore, and 30,000 sold into slavery. Tyre ceased to be an island, and henceforth was permanently joined to the mainland. Only a blunt headland to-day suggests the existence of the former island fortress. The mole is now ½ mile broad.” (A Dictionary of the Bible, s.v. “Tyre.”)

Fallows noted how Ezekiel’s prophecy that Tyre would be scraped clean and made like the top of a rock was fulfilled: “So utterly were the ruins of old Tyre thrown into the sea, that its exact site is confessedly undeterminable, although the ruins of nearly fifty cities near Rome, which perished almost 2,500 years ago, testify that the extinction of every trace of a city is a sort of miracle.” (Bible Encyclopedia, s.v. “Tyre,” p. 1682.)

coastlines of Tyre
(click to view larger)
Today there is no island opposite Tyre, but a close examination of the coastline in that vicinity will show a small peninsula jutting into the sea. Because of its configuration and the prevailing breezes, local fishermen come to the barren, rocky outcrop to spread their nets to dry.

The prophet Ezekiel certainly met the criteria outlined in Deuteronomy 18:18–22for determining whether a prophet speaks for the Lord.

http://www.LDS.org/manual/old-testament ... 7?lang=eng
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _grindael »

Is LDS.org quoting a Presbyterian Scholar?

James Hastings (1852–1922) was a Scottish Presbyterian minister and biblical scholar. He was born in Huntly, Aberdeenshire. He studied the classics at the University of Aberdeen, attended the Free Church Divinity College in Aberdeen, and was ordained a Free Church minister in 1884. He was founder and editor of the Expository Times.

And Samuel Fallows? A Methodist Minister?

http://books.google.com/books?id=jrJUAA ... le&f=false

If this is good enough for LDS.org, why isn't it good enough for Daniel?
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_Tobin
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _Tobin »

Nice one maklelan. Seems you clearly nailed grindael to the wall and in retaliation, grinndael is trotting out some rather absurd and shallow assertions (4 posts in a row - must be really miffed). Keep up the good work. Eventually, grindael will accuse you of not being Mormon and then you know you've arrived.
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_maklelan
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _maklelan »

grindael wrote:Professionally? LOL now that is a ridiculous argument.


Is it? I've presented at SBL and a number of other international conferences every year for quite some time now. I've directly engaged a number of scholars of a number of different faith traditions throughout.

grindael wrote:You are not a scholar of the Fundamentalist persuasion so you are not one either. Your argument is all kinds of silly. You just can't answer simple questions, and want to try and make is seem that someone has to be a "scholar" to know a subject better than someone else. That is ridiculous and you know it. And how about rebutting the scholar I did quote?


Who, Archer? I did. The ball's in your court now, but we both know you have nothing you can say in response, so that argument will be abandoned to the eternities while you move on to something else. Maybe you meant Carson? My comments already stand against the position to which you obliquely referred. If you'd like to quote actual parts of his publications, feel free. I'll be happy to respond.

grindael wrote:You see, you are only playing word games here, using arguments that your own faith does not believe.


And you keep engaging strawman arguments.
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _maklelan »

grindael wrote:Your right, my picture was wrong. This is the correct picture. Thanks for pointing that out. http://generationword.com/images/alexan ... sea_lg.jpg


Tell me how you know these are not also Roman ruins, and then tell me why you think two segments of columns lying in the shallows of the Mediterranean Sea constitutes a fulfilled prophecy about the ancient city of Tyre, never to be rebuilt again.
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_maklelan
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Re: False Prophet=Joseph Smith=Brigham Young

Post by _maklelan »

grindael wrote:(27-6) Ezekiel 26:1–14. A Remarkable Fulfillment of Prophecy


So what's your case now? I'm a bad Mormon? Is that it? You don't care that your entire understanding of the fulfillment of the Ezekiel prophecy has been shown to be a silly misunderstanding? All you want is to score a rhetorical point or two?
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