Difference in Cultures - Do you understand what reality is?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hrm. You both make very good points.

I think what I'm getting at is something akin to the recent Richard Dawkins thing where he made the connection that a small college has more Nobel Laureates than the Muslim world (indicating that the religion is anti-Science). He was branded a racist when in reality he was just trying to make a point (which race is Islam again?).

That's what I see going on here. A jump to nonsense accusations when rational discussion can be had?

- Doc

[_RayAgostini]

Hrm. You both make very good points.

I think what I'm getting at is something akin to the recent Richard Dawkins thing where he made the connection that a small college has more Nobel Laureates than the Muslim world (indicating that the religion is anti-Science). He was branded a racist when in reality he was just trying to make a point (which race is Islam again?).

Islam is of no particular "race". The world's most populous Muslim nation is Indonesia.


The Nobel Prize was a Swedish conception, by Alfred Nobel, and therefore very unlikely to seriously consider merit outside of "Western values" and achievements. Overlooked achievements.

List of modern-day Muslim scholars of Islam

List of Muslim historians

List of Muslim scientists

Contributions to mathematics:

Arabic numerals

The shallow view of Muslims seems to have been perpetrated by uninformed emails, mainly circulated by Evangelical Christians, and others prejudiced against Islam.

[_Quasimodo]

A predominantly Black Gospel Church with Rock music would seem more representative of "Black culture" in America, than the video.

Black culture in the U.S is as diverse as White culture. I've worked with some truly excellent Black doctors and listened live to the most amazing Black musicians and singers in New Orleans.

There is a series on TV here in the U.S. called "Treme". If you are interested in Black culture, it will teach you most of what you would want to know.

When someone says Black culture I immediately think of music.

This is Grandpa Elliot. He is a blind street singer in New Orleans. This is my experience of Black culture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKIRtdoHCGQ

Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgLqtN-l9lY

[_Quasimodo]

Hrm. You both make very good points.

I think what I'm getting at is something akin to the recent Richard Dawkins thing where he made the connection that a small college has more Nobel Laureates than the Muslim world (indicating that the religion is anti-Science). He was branded a racist when in reality he was just trying to make a point (which race is Islam again?).

That's what I see going on here. A jump to nonsense accusations when rational discussion can be had?

- Doc

You might have found that easier if you hadn't started with utter nonsense to begin with. If I had started a conversation with a video of Honey Boo Boo and asked if this seemed "normative" of White people, I wouldn't have expected a serious conversation.

The biggest trouble I see with prejudice is that the people who are prejudiced don't understand that they are. They think that they are being reasonable.

[_RayAgostini]

Black culture in the U.S is as diverse as White culture. I've worked with some truly excellent Black doctors and listened live to the most amazing Black musicians and singers in New Orleans.

There is a series on TV here in the U.S. called "Treme". If you are interested in Black culture, it will teach you most of what you would want to know.

When someone says Black culture I immediately think of music.

This is Grandpa Elliot. He is a blind street singer in New Orleans. This is my experience of Black culture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKIRtdoHCGQ

Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgLqtN-l9lY

Thanks, Quas, I enjoyed both videos, but the second one especially.

I was born in and grew up in Trinidad. I'm actually a descendent, through my paternal great grandmother, of the original inhabitants, the Caribs and Arawaks. I guess in American terms, you could call me a "native American Indian". My native ancestors have all now been but wiped out, with only small remnants left on islands like Dominica.

My experience of growing up in Trinidad, which at the time was dominated by those of African and Indian ancestry, with only something like a 5% European content (of which I was part, as most of my ancestors came from Portugal and Italian-dominated Corsica until the 1780s, and then my great-grandfather married a "Native Indian"), was that there was no such thing as a "Black culture", because it simply couldn't be pegged down to a singularity. It was way too diverse, and with as many class divisions as among whites.

[_Quasimodo]

Thanks, Quas, I enjoyed both videos, but the second one especially.

I was born in and grew up in Trinidad. I'm actually a descendent, through my paternal great grandmother, of the original inhabitants, the Caribs and Arawaks. I guess in American terms, you could call me a "native American Indian". My native ancestors have all now been but wiped out, with only small remnants left on islands like Dominica.

My experience of growing up in Trinidad, which at the time was dominated by those of African and Indian ancestry, with only something like a 5% European content (of which I was part, as most of my ancestors came from Portugal and Italian-dominated Corsica until the 1780s, and then my great-grandfather married a "Native Indian"), was that there was no such thing as a "Black culture", because it simply couldn't be pegged down to a singularity. It was way too diverse, and with as many class divisions as among whites.

We must be related! My wife is half Yaqui Indian. Lamanites are Lamanites. That's fascinating that you are from Trinidad! I have never spoken to a Carib (no matter how much removed). Aussies brag about barbecue, but it was the Caribs that came up with it first.

This is really interesting. We will have to have a conversation about your life in Trinidad. I now understand your name Agostini.

My ancestry is much more mundane. My father was from Wales and my Mother was from Ireland (I have the freckles to prove it). I was born in England.

I've gleaned (maybe wrongly) that you now live in Australia. How did you get there?

[_RayAgostini]

This is really interesting. We will have to have a conversation about your life in Trinidad. I now understand your name Agostini.

Quas, my ancestry is documented in a book titled The Corsicans in Trinidad. My great, great grandfather was born in the same city, Ajaccio, and about the same time (some say the same year), as Napoleon Bonaparte. There was a division between French and English supporters, and the French gained rule of Corsica (after several hundred years of Italian domination). That's when my g-g-grandfather (Don Simon Agostini) sided with the English, and migrated to the Caribbean (which eventually came almost entirely under British rule). Napoleon of course migrated to France, and changed his name from Buonaparte (Italian), to Bonaparte, and as they say, "the rest is history.

My ancestry is much more mundane. My father was from Wales and my Mother was from Ireland (I have the freckles to prove it). I was born in England.

I have a special love for the Irish, as I spent a year at boarding school in Bray, which is about 13 miles south of Dublin. To this day, I still adore Ireland, and have many cherished memories.

I've gleaned (maybe wrongly) that you now live in Australia. How did you get there?

I have a brother and sister who migrated to Australia in 1959 and 1969 respectively, so it wasn't difficult to decide whether I'd settle in America, England, or Australia. Trinidad's employment opportunities were poor, and social unrest developing, so for most of us it wasn't a matter of "when", but "where".

[_moksha]

Ludwigm, do you find these peppers to be fairly normative for goulash culture?

[_ludwigm]

[pic]dump

Ludwigm, do you find these peppers to be fairly normative for goulash culture?

We use producers we know long ago - they are not cheap, by the way




Tourists can find acceptable products at our markets



The world is too big to be supplied by this woman



The outing of dumpers are far better than forgeries from Far East or Nord Africa - sometimes mixed with brick power...

[_beastie]

Are White Liberals practicing a subtle form of racism by projecting their values onto others (Black Folk in this case), when the two groups simply have different social mores?

So you are seriously suggesting that the social mores reflected in the clip you linked are representative of the social mores of the black culture overall?????

I don't even know what to say in response. I can't imagine where you live that black people all generally act like this comedian.

What I've seen on this board is an overreaction to observations made about Black culture by the Conservatives. What I'm trying to point is this:

Perhaps their culture contains different social conventions than ours? Are White Liberals practicing a form a racism by not acknowledging that what's right, or what's important to them may not be shared by the people on behalf they're advocating?

So help us out here. Could you specifically identify what is right or important to the black culture that white liberals don't understand?

I get that Conservatives are trying to force their values onto others (OhmygodImadeageneralization). That's a given. However, aren't "Progressives" guilty of the same thing?

For example, Ms. Beastie mentioned that Black folks where she lives are generally religious. Aren't WL policies killing off more Blacks than any other demographic (see: Abortion)?

That's a complete paradox, especially when you consider that WLs tend to patronize minorities. It's stunning, really.

- Doc

Well, let's not stop at abortion. Birth control is also killing off lots of blacks. Of course you realize that liberals support abortion rights for all women, not just blacks, but don't let that stop you from parroting this right wing talking point.

But aside from that, I would agree that progressives also are trying to force their values onto others. That's pretty much what government in general is about.