A Huge thanks to Brian Hales - Helen Kimball Article

[_futuremissionary]

There's so much controversy surrounding Helen Mar Kimball, Joseph Smith's 14-year-old wife. I finally compiled an article with apologist views on the subject, specifically citing Brian C. Hales and David Keller from FAIR Blog. I especially appreciate Brian's emails back and forth with me and even offering to send his book free of charge. Thanks Brian! Here's the article, if you're interested: http://futuremissionary.com/helen-mar-k ... eph-smith/

[Guest]

I am trying to imagine how far a persons mind has to be shaped by Mormon sexual repression in order to have this argument make sense. How can you forget about the emotional disaster this was for Helen and instead only worry whether Smith remains sexually pure in some legal sense? How can one ignore the kind of social manipulation this represented ? Whether there was sex is a diversionary side show question used by people to avoid looking at what kind of kingdom Mr Smith was building.

Or is it a simple Smith matters and Helen does not?

[_The Erotic Apologist]

From the article at Futuremissionary's site...

In an article titled Sexuality in Joseph Smith’s Plural Marriages, Brother Hales does provide evidence that Joseph had a sexual relationship with at least 9 of his 33 wives, but not necessarily all of them. He contends that a busy schedule as well as a vigilant, jealous wife would have kept him from participating in any sexual activity. He was always under Emma’s watchful eye. If his other wives and he were unaccounted for even for a few minutes, Emma was known to search the house as well the neighborhood.

Helen married Joseph about a year before the end of his life when he was incredibly busy and Emma was at her most jealous state, making opportunities for sexual encounters few and far between. Though lack of opportunity and lack of evidence don’t necessarily prove that the relationship wasn’t sexual, it’s not a silver bullet for the anti-Mormons either.

Somehow it's always Emma's fault, but what really gets me is the last sentence in the second paragraph: Though lack of opportunity and lack of evidence don’t necessarily prove that the relationship wasn’t sexual, it’s not a silver bullet for the anti-Mormons either.

You don't need a "silver bullet" for pests and varmints because a regular copper-jacketed bullet works just fine, thank you.

[_Blixa]

From the article at Futuremissionary's site...

In an article titled Sexuality in Joseph Smith’s Plural Marriages, Brother Hales does provide evidence that Joseph had a sexual relationship with at least 9 of his 33 wives, but not necessarily all of them. He contends that a busy schedule as well as a vigilant, jealous wife would have kept him from participating in any sexual activity. He was always under Emma’s watchful eye. If his other wives and he were unaccounted for even for a few minutes, Emma was known to search the house as well the neighborhood.

Helen married Joseph about a year before the end of his life when he was incredibly busy and Emma was at her most jealous state, making opportunities for sexual encounters few and far between. Though lack of opportunity and lack of evidence don’t necessarily prove that the relationship wasn’t sexual, it’s not a silver bullet for the anti-Mormons either.

Somehow it's always Emma's fault, but what really gets me is the last sentence in the second paragraph: Though lack of opportunity and lack of evidence don’t necessarily prove that the relationship wasn’t sexual, it’s not a silver bullet for the anti-Mormons either.

This, and huckleberry's remarks above it, capture what is so disquieting about the practice and contemporary apologetic explanations of it.

[_moksha]

Whether there was sex is a diversionary side show question used by people to avoid looking at what kind of kingdom Mr Smith was building.

When watching the movie Apocalypse Now, it is easier to watch Martin Sheen without his shirt than it is to watch all those heads on pikes. Despite what that crazy character played by Marlon Brando said, most of us wish to avert our eyes from the horror.

[_grindael]

Was it normal to marry MULTIPLE teens back then?

[_Stormy Waters]

He was always under Emma’s watchful eye. If his other wives and he were unaccounted for even for a few minutes, Emma was known to search the house as well the neighborhood

I'm sorry, is this supposed to make me feel better about Joseph Smith? That every time Joseph leaves Emma assumes he's having sex with another woman behind her back and is trying to find and stop him?

[_Spanner]

Looks like Sister Holland thinks the site is a Poe. I think a recent missionary would be better placed to know what information the modern missionary needs; Helen Mar Kimball will be one of the first thing a googling investigator will find when they get online after the missionaries leave. The fact that there isn't really a faith-promoting answer is no reason to leave the missionaries in the dark. Perhaps she wants to see a strategy for dodging the question, tossing out a red herring, and laying on the emotional manipulation.

I am no fan of the missionary effort, but sending out the kids unprepared is just cruel.

Anyway,
I am not sure where these figures are derived from:

Though it’s impossible to determine an exact number, we should be able to come up with an estimate. If, as Keller shows, 19% of 37-year-old men married teens and of those teen 2.62% were 14, we see that less than 1/2% of men Joseph’s age would have married a 14-year-old (Please note that this is a high estimate as the likelihood of the teen being 14 goes down as the man’s age goes up).

I can't see the source on Keller's page.

[_palerobber]

from the article:
Though Helen’s age on its own may seem damning, it’s only relevant if Joseph Smith and Helen actually had sex.

right, since a 37 year old man being pretend married to a 14 year old girl is totally normal and acceptable in the US.

[_just me]

Was it normal to marry MULTIPLE teens back then?

No. And it wasn't normal for 14 year olds to marry at that time. It was rare. Even more rare for them to marry a man in his 30's. Unheard of to marry an already married man with children around your own age.