Same-sex Marriage.

[_wenglund]

Yes, Wade. Let's compare.

And you will find that, taken as a whole, liberal counties/state keep the conservative counties/states afloat financially.

It's just one of the many interesting facts that you'll find if you do an honest evaluation. Here's another one: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... servatives

If my blog posts, or the specific discussion in question, were in regards to financial status or level of intelligence, then your suggested comparison might have made some sense. They weren't.

However, if you would like to research relevant comparative statistics, I would be pleased to see them.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Analytics]

I only had a moment this morning before heading out of town for a couple of days, and I thought that since the issue of same-sex marriage was raised tangentially on another thread, I would start a new thread on the topic.

As fodder for the discussion, may I offer a series of brief articles I have written on the unintended negative consequences of SSM, starting here: "Leftist LUNCs (Law of Unintended Negative Consequences)--Same Sex Marriage: Intro."

Feel free to respond in my absence. I will engage in the discussion when I return.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

One of the alleged unintended negative consequences of marriage equality is entitled "House Divided". It begins by saying...

Russia has long been greatly admired and respected in the U.S. by the Left.

This is because, in part, Russia is where socialism or left-wing thinking began and matured. Symbolically, Russia is the "father land" to its leftist offspring in America.

However, recently there has developed a rift within the liberal family between Eastern parents and Western teens, so to speak.

[U.S. liberals admire everything about Russia and are "hopping mad" about one and only one issue there: Russia's law against "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations."]

For the sake of argument, let's grant Wade's assertion that U.S. liberals admire Russia and hope America can grow up to be just like it. Let's grant for the sake or argument that U.S. liberals don't care about child trafficking, slavery, organized crime, war, or cigarettes.

Given all that, the one thing that prevents U.S. liberals and Russia from being a unified team is disagreement over gay rights: it is that disagreement that causes them to have a "house divided."

Now that we've granted as facts all of the preposterous accusations made in that blog entry and summarized its point, here is the question: why is the liberal house being divided a negative consequence? The purpose of the site it to proclaim that basically everything liberalism does causes unintended negative consequences that are orders of magnitude worse than whatever good is intended. If houses that are divided are weaker than houses that are united, one would think that the leftist house being divided among itself is a definitely positive consequence.

[_wenglund]

One of the alleged unintended negative consequences of marriage equality is entitled "House Divided". It begins by saying...

For the sake of argument, let's grant Wade's assertion that U.S. liberals admire Russia and hope America can grow up to be just like it.

I didn't claim that American liberals hoped to grow up to be just like Russia. I was silent about its hope.

Let's grant for the sake or argument that U.S. liberals don't care about child trafficking, slavery, organized crime, war, or cigarettes.

I didn't claim that U.S. liberals don't care about those things. Rather, I said that those issues hadn't "stirred the ire of the U.S. democrats enough to ignite their activist machines, and mobilize them to demonstrate, boycott, and engage is various other forms of public outcry."

Given all that, the one thing that prevents U.S. liberals and Russia from being a unified team is disagreement over gay rights: it is that disagreement that causes them to have a "house divided."

I didn't claim that the disagreement was over gay rights. Here is what I actually said: "Essentially, liberal Americans are outraged because Russia wont allow gay pride parades during the Olympics, and won't let homosexuals proselytize their deleterious sexual behavior to Russian youth. Evidently, the Left in the U.S. doesn't approve of Russia's effort to prevent, to some extent, sexual exploitation of children."

Now that we've granted as facts all of the preposterous accusations made in that blog entry and summarized its point,

Actually, you have repeatedly misstated my claims. Please stop.

here is the question: why is the liberal house being divided a negative consequence? The purpose of the site it to proclaim that basically everything liberalism does causes unintended negative consequences that are orders of magnitude worse than whatever good is intended.

Nowhere in my blog have said that "everything liberalism does causes unintended negative consequences." In fact, I frequently acknowledge a number of good things that liberals have done.

If houses that are divided are weaker than houses that are united, one would think that the leftist house being divided among itself is a definitely positive consequence.

That may be a reasonable conclusion drawn by those on the Right, but not likely by those on the Left. Since my blog is written with the Left in mind, then that would rationally explain the "negative."

So, even though you misrepresented my post on a number of points and seemed intent on nit picking, I do appreciate you taking the time to read it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Bazooka]

Wade, have you personally experienced any kind of marriage yet?

[_wenglund]

Wade, have you personally experienced any kind of marriage yet?

No, I haven't married--though, as indicated on another thread, I am working to rectify that deficit.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

... in reality they have unwittingly accented to the destruction of the traditional family...

What is it about accents that destroys traditional families? I don't think it hurt Lucy and Ricky Ricardo too much, although he was constantly yelling at her about needing to do "some 'splaining," which I'm sure was not pleasant for her. But in a truly traditional family, it's a husband's job to control and discipline his wife, so she should just humble herself and accept it.

With the decline of... social morays...

Sadly, I think this decline must have already happened a long time ago. I don't think morays are very social these days, what with their habit of hiding out quietly in rock crevices and waiting to lunge at some lunch. They look lonely.

Here's a shout-out to Krose for humorously pointing out several spelling errors. Please feel free to note any others. It will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Analytics]

I didn't claim that American liberals hoped to grow up to be just like Russia. I was silent about its hope.

So your position is that American liberals "admire" Russia, but didn't say or imply whether or not they hope their country becomes more like the country they admire. Thanks for the clarification.

If houses that are divided are weaker than houses that are united, one would think that the leftist house being divided among itself is a definitely positive consequence.

That may be a reasonable conclusion drawn by those on the Right, but not likely by those on the Left. Since my blog is written with the Left in mind, then that would rationally explain the "negative."

Let's follow this statement to its logical conclusion. From the perspective with which you write your blog, unintended negative consequences are things that hurt the liberal agenda. If you oppose liberalism, then you should be in favor of things that hurt the liberal agenda. Thus the unintended negative consequences you describe are the very things Conservatives support.

[_palerobber]

House Divided When it comes to homosexual issues, iberals are now at each others throats.

meanwhile in reality...

Gallup 7/29/2013:
Position on Making Same-Sex Marriages Legal in All 50 States:
Liberals ........... 77% for, 19% against
Conservatives .... 67% against, 30% for

Washington Post/ABC 7/3/2013:
Overall, do you approve or disapprove of the U.S. Supreme Court’'s decision providing legally married same-sex couples with the same federal benefits given to other married couples?
Liberals ........... 79% approve, 20% disapprove
Conservatives .... 61% disapprove, 38% approve

which of these groups would you say is more "divided", Wade?

[_palerobber]

within this sandcastle of crap Wade has lovingly crafted, we find this remarkable (unsupported) claim...

[...] compassion towards homosexuals, particularly with the legalization of same-sex marriage, has resulted in an increase [...] in the rate of homosexual suicides

just out of curiousity (since you don't cite any references), where did you collect this particular turd, Wade?

[_Kyle Reese]

Wade,
I'm surprised that you haven't been called out yet for some of your questionable math skills and/or your logical reasoning with regard to the consequence of "costly gov expansion". You state "where benefits of same-sex marriage to gay couples are said to be as high as $500,000.00 over their lifetime"

Are you implying that the cost to the government is that much for each SSM couple?

Digging into your sources, we read "In our worst case, the couple’s lifetime cost of being gay was $467,562. But the number fell to $41,196 in the best case for a couple with significantly better health insurance, plus lower taxes and other costs."

(Are you rounding $467k up to $500k?)

Furthermore, the source article is referring to the out of pocket costs to a SSM couple, including such things as artificial insemination fees ($40k), moving fees ($20k) to a ssm friendly state, tax preparation fees ($12k), lower IRA savings opportunities ($48k-$112k), etc. These are hardly costs that would be passed onto the government in a SSM situation.