Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Kishkumen]

You are correct. He sent it TO Joanna. All of the wording was 'us' and 'we' so I read it incorrectly. It doesn't change my assessment. If anything, letting the one who sexually harassed a subordinate set the terms for "options" offered to the victim is even worse.

I respect that this is your conclusion. I don’t see it that way because so much remains opaque. It seems to me that there are probably sound reasons why organizations of this size are not policed in the same way. Open Stories Foundation was a nominal organization trying to work things out with a person who part way through the process decided to quit cooperating. It is only after Rosebud changes her posture to adversarial that they tried another tack. Interestingly, it was probably their desire to remain engaged and to work something out with a person who had become totally unreasonable to work with that they started getting sloppy. They should have just forced her to sue them and lose.

But it is still not clear that there was sexual harassment. Or, it isn’t clear to me because I don’t know all the details and I don’t assume the same criteria apply in the way you are applying them. Would I have reported John to Joanna had I become aware of the situation after the training I have received on the job? Yes. Then there would have been an investigation, which should only unfold in accordance with the law. What the outcome would be depends on a lot of things. I don’t personally see the point of calling it sexual harassment, but that’s me. I am fine with saying that what he did was wrong and unwise.

[Lem]

Yes, i think we see some aspects differently, and i certainly respect that.

My position is that it doesn't matter how 'consensual' an affair was between a superior and a subordinate. If it ends with the management arranging for the subordinate to lose her job, which her superior requested, while the superior retains his, how smoothly the process went or how erratic the victim was during the process doesn't obviate the sexual harassment.

I agree Rosebud is just digging a bigger and bigger hole for herself. Even allowing for the sexual harassment charge, it has been a decade and she has an ethical obligation now to police herself. Life is not fair, but she can't keep pouting about it without destroying herself.

[Kishkumen]

My position is that it doesn't matter how 'consensual' an affair was between a superior and a subordinate. If it ends with the management arranging for the subordinate to lose her job, which her superior requested, while the superior retains his, how smoothly the process went or how erratic the victim was during the process doesn't obviate the sexual harassment.

Yes, I don’t agree with your characterization of these things with the information I have seen, so that’s undoubtedly one reason why we do not reach the same conclusion.

agree Rosebud is just digging a bigger and bigger hole for herself. Even allowing for the sexual harassment charge, it has been a decade and she has an ethical obligation now to police herself. Life is not fair, but she can't keep pouting about it without destroying herself.

I agree with you there.

[master_dc]

I can see the sexual harassment that Lem is calling out, but e more I read their interactions, the less I see a true power struggle. They bounce a bunch of ideas off of one another and when ever it meets the threshold for action, JD does not make the decision, members of the board do. I really see this as two adults, fell in love, it got out of control. Both parties had moments of wanting more and moments of pulling back. The more serious allegations levied by team Rosebud are missing in the docs I have looked at. I really hope for her sake, she calls out the recording of her, his sneaking into her room and how the at made her feel… it is still a he said/she said.

And they both received the same punishment. Both had to vacate their w2 positions. To some degree, JD was at risk, the board could have just as easily removed him for good. The fallout of this tryst took many shapes and forms. JD was reappointed to the board in October because all but one resigned. And I don’t blame them. None of them signed up for this melodrama, it belongs on bravo, especially since they were not really compensated.

As others have stated,Rosebud envisioned a future that she and JD were going to change the world, side by side, maybe in a relationship or maybe just as friends. They were the power couple. She literally typed this out to him. Then it all fell apart.

Interesting details:
In 2018, when she asked for an investigation, she wanted access to the Facebook groups again… why!?!?

Why does she blame JD for the franchise lawsuit? I still can’t track it.

She might not get on Ellen, but Andy Cohen and the Bravo team might consider a new segment “real housewives of Open Stories”

[jpatterson]

I agree Rosebud is just digging a bigger and bigger hole for herself...Life is not fair, but she can't keep pouting about it without destroying herself.

So let's just review the last few weeks:

Kwaku makes a takedown video of JD and drags Rosebud's real life name back out into the open. Rosebud says nothing.

Kate Kelly gets involved. Rosebud says nothing.

John uses RFM and Bill Reel to finally, after 10 long years of waiting, take a clumsy public swing at Rosebud.

Rosebud swings back.

And all of a sudden it's Rosebud who is unhinged and digging holes for herself?

The truth is that if John hadn't taken Kwaku's bait, none of this drama would have happened and I could go back to never knowing this board even existed. Here's the other reality: John has way more to lose out of this saga than Rosebud does. She's basically already lost everything. Her family, her livelihood. What does she stand to lose by putting everything out there? Her reputation on MD??

So, if anything, it puzzles me how you're not talking about how JD is the one digging a hole by outing himself as prematurely ejaculating adulterer when he's been propping himself as a wholesome family man who gollyshucks still considers himself Mormon after all this time.

Oh and by the way I was an employee of Open Stories Foundation, not a volunteer. I would show you the tax forms but I know it wouldn't change your mind about anything so I won't go through the trouble. Also own zero sock puppets and am definitely not a DezNat supporter. Talk about self-awareness, guys.

And, finally, I can't for the life of me believe none of y'all picked up on John comparing himself to Oprah. Oprah!! Come on. That was gold.

[consiglieri]

John will be on Oprah before Rosebud is on Ellen.

[consiglieri]

I agree Rosebud is just digging a bigger and bigger hole for herself...Life is not fair, but she can't keep pouting about it without destroying herself.

So let's just review the last few weeks:

Kwaku makes a takedown video of JD and drags Rosebud's real life name back out into the open. Rosebud says nothing.

Kate Kelly gets involved. Rosebud says nothing.

John uses RFM and Bill Reel to finally, after 10 long years of waiting, take a clumsy public swing at Rosebud.

Rosebud swings back.

And all of a sudden it's Rosebud who is unhinged and digging holes for herself?

The truth is that if John hadn't taken Kwaku's bait, none of this drama would have happened and I could go back to never knowing this board even existed. Here's the other reality: John has way more to lose out of this saga than Rosebud does. She's basically already lost everything. Her family, her livelihood. What does she stand to lose by putting everything out there? Her reputation on MD??

So, if anything, it puzzles me how you're not talking about how JD is the one digging a hole by outing himself as prematurely ejaculating adulterer when he's been propping himself as a wholesome family man who gollyshucks still considers himself Mormon after all this time.

Oh and by the way I was an employee of Open Stories Foundation, not a volunteer. I would show you the tax forms but I know it wouldn't change your mind about anything so I won't go through the trouble. Also own zero sock puppets and am definitely not a DezNat supporter. Talk about self-awareness, guys.

And, finally, I can't for the life of me believe none of y'all picked up on John comparing himself to Oprah. Oprah!! Come on. That was gold.

One question:

Were you unhinged before you met Rosebud?

[Jersey Girl]

John uses RFM and Bill Reel to finally, after 10 long years of waiting, take a clumsy public swing at Rosebud.

Rosebud swings back.

And all of a sudden it's Rosebud who is unhinged and digging holes for herself?

After 10 long years of waiting? All of a sudden?

Do you have ANY idea of his or her posting history on Mormon Discussions Board? Hell, I am not even LDS or ex-LDS and I can see that you have no idea what took place on our previous MDB.

You should probably look into that with your own eyes instead of sticking your foot in your mouth like that.

[Jersey Girl]

John will be on Oprah before Rosebud is on Ellen.

consig speculate her motive, please? I mean her motive for the whole enchilada. What's the end game? I mean besides making JD's life a miserable pit of stinking hell.

[jpatterson]

Do you have ANY idea of his or her posting history on Mormon Discussions Board? Hell, I am not even LDS or ex-LDS and I can see that you have no idea what took place on our previous MDB.

LOL. Further evidence that you guys think you're the center of the universe. Talk about self-awareness.