The Book of Romans the LDS refuse to heed

[_Albion]

Tobin the comedian. "Ducking and running for cover" is something I have never felt the need to do when discussing with you, Tobin. Using Biblical scripture is actually quite easy when discussing with you since you rarely use it but prefer to divert any discussions into either personal attacks or space fantasy...in and of itself the perfect "duck and cover". A better response would be to attempt to refute my Hebrews quote with something that supported your own view. Good luck, though, in finding it.

[_Tobin]

Tobin the comedian. "Ducking and running for cover" is something I have never felt the need to do when discussing with you, Tobin. Using Biblical scripture is actually quite easy when discussing with you since you rarely use it but prefer to divert any discussions into either personal attacks or space fantasy...in and of itself the perfect "duck and cover". A better response would be to attempt to refute my Hebrews quote with something that supported your own view. Good luck, though, in finding it.

Actually, I was pointing out how you distorted the verse from Hebrews by asking you where Jesus is today? Clearly you failed to respond meaningfully to that inquiry. So I clarified that the reason we still need prophets today is precisely because Jesus isn't here among us. When you understand that, you also understand the proper way to view the verse from Hebrews and how you so badly mangled it. The rest of your response is just nonsense. I simply don't resort to personal attacks or space fantasies ever (that is a red-herring). And to deal with your poor comprehension of the Bible is child's play.

[_Albion]

I suggest a full study of the coming of the Holy Spirit as the "second comforter" and as the one who testifies and reveals Christ today...Christ the full and complete revelation of God. The HS was evident in Old Testament times but he was not a constant companion and comforter to believers. That did not occur until Jesus ascended and the HS descended in his fullness. Of course, if you wish to get your information second hand as it were from false prophets then none of this will mean much to you.

[_Tobin]

I suggest a full study of the coming of the Holy Spirit as the "second comforter" and as the one who testifies and reveals Christ today...Christ the full and complete revelation of God. The HS was evident in Old Testament times but he was not a constant companion and comforter to believers. That did not occur until Jesus ascended and the HS descended in his fullness. Of course, if you wish to get your information second hand as it were from false prophets then none of this will mean much to you.

You don't believe a word of that. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here disputing the need to seek him, see him and speak with him. And I think it is funny you turn your nose up at getting information from God second-hand from his prophets. Who do you think wrote the Bible in the first place? Yep, his prophets.

[_Albion]

Now you are an expert on what I do and do not believe. Priceless. Just so you understand...I do not dispute the need to seek God but it is done through prayer and by means of the Holy Spirit, the prescribed Biblical way for believers. Since no man has seen God at any time, I do not expect nor anticipate that my prayers will be rewarded at any time with a literal appearing of God in all his fullness and glory. No man can look upon God in the flesh and live. I do believe in the revelations of authentic prophets contained in the Old Testament...but there is neither the need for not the actuality of real prophets, in the order of Moses and Isaiah, today. Those who claim to be such prophets today are false prophets masquerading as mouthpieces for their equally false concept of God. There, now you have a statement of my belief on this subject you have no further need to distort or misrepresent what I believe and what I have said. I doubt, though, that it will stop you doing so.

[_Tobin]

Now you are an expert on what I do and do not believe. Priceless. Just so you understand...I do not dispute the need to seek God but it is done through prayer and by means of the Holy Spirit, the prescribed Biblical way for believers. Since no man has seen God at any time, I do not expect nor anticipate that my prayers will be rewarded at any time with a literal appearing of God in all his fullness and glory. No man can look upon God in the flesh and live.

Is Jesus God? Did anyone see Jesus? Did anyone live after seeing Jesus? Why do you continually feel the need to spout all this nonsense?

I do believe in the revelations of authentic prophets contained in the Old Testament...but there is neither the need for not the actuality of real prophets, in the order of Moses and Isaiah, today.

I don't remember me claiming there was? But I certainly don't think learning about and following the words and examples of modern men of high caliber such as MLK or Gandhi would be such a bad idea do you? And if such men, through their words and deeds exemplify and show the way to God, isn't that all a real prophet does?

Those who claim to be such prophets today are false prophets masquerading as mouthpieces for their equally false concept of God. There, now you have a statement of my belief on this subject you have no further need to distort or misrepresent what I believe and what I have said. I doubt, though, that it will stop you doing so.

Oh, I don't disagree. A true prophet of God doesn't need to say they are a prophet. A prophet of God will teach you of God through word and deed and ask you to do likewise and seek the Lord. That is the true path.

[_Bazooka]

Albion, ask Tobin what God is like because he (Tobin) claims to have met him in person.
I'm not kidding. Ask him and watch him duck and run for cover.

[_Albion]

I am aware of Tobin's claimed experience and he is entitled to believe whatever he wishes. It is his lack of understanding of conventional Christianity and his contorted understanding of scripture which, whether you believe in its divine origin or not supposedly forms the basis of discussion between that Christianity and Mormonism, that makes discussion difficult. Throw in his apparent rejection of normal Mormonism and a desire to obfuscate and twist on virtually every issue and you have the makings of difficult discussion. Likely you will get a perfect example in his response to this.

[_subgenius]

No, not in the physical sense but I could respond by suggesting that you ask him anyway to find out for yourself since that is your usual response. Perhaps it is time to take your own advice. However, Mormons do claim to follow scripture as the basis for their beliefs but as is so often the case they tend to cling to their so-called "proof texts", often completely ignoring context and continuity of scripture. My response was in accord with the very set of scriptures use above to support the idea of a prophet leader today.

but your cited scriptures do not what you claim...i understand your position of evangelical dispensationalism - but I do not read in your posts where (1) Prophets and/or the gift of prophecy has been dismissed in the scriptures; and (2) how do resolve the "fulfilmment" of the Abrahamic Covenant, The Land Covenant, Davidic Covenant, and the Mosaic Covenant?

and just out of curiosity...which of the following dispensational views are you promoting here?

[_Albion]

Well for starters, I did not say that the gift of prophesy was no longer around...only the need for prophets in the way Mormons claim since believers have the Holy Spirit to discern and a Savior who is their advocate in the presence of the Father. How does a so-called prophet Trump that? All Old Testament covenants are fulfilled in Christ and the New Covenant.