What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

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_Gunnar
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _Gunnar »

Bazooka wrote:
Gunnar wrote:When I think about that question, I can't help but wonder how many of the top 15 realize just how tenuous and highly questionable are any of the Church's foundational claims. They are not really stupid men, and some of them have very impressive academic credentials. I find it very hard to believe that none of them seriously doubt that the church they lead is everything they claim to believe it is.


Jeffrey R Holland put paid to your optimsm in his interview with the BBC.

Yes, I agree. It is remarkable to me how anyone can fail to see that he was caught blatantly lying in that interview.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_subgenius
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _subgenius »

Obviously the peanut gallery failed to read and comprehend the blog link posted in the OP. The usual bandwagon of superfluous criticisms and armchair pontifications have once again fallen into the worn rut if the road to mediocrity.
Soon Brigham Young will be dusted off and paraded around as a condemnation of the church.
All style and no substance from the usual crowd of mudslingers.
So, what of the articles of faith?
Or the rather concise points from the OP link?
Why no meaningful criticism for anything of value to church or member?
Because their minds are as empty a their arguments.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_CameronMO
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _CameronMO »

subgenius wrote:Obviously the peanut gallery failed to read and comprehend the blog link posted in the OP. The usual bandwagon of superfluous criticisms and armchair pontifications have once again fallen into the worn rut if the road to mediocrity.
Soon Brigham Young will be dusted off and paraded around as a condemnation of the church.
All style and no substance from the usual crowd of mudslingers.
So, what of the articles of faith?
Or the rather concise points from the OP link?
Why no meaningful criticism for anything of value to church or member?
Because their minds are as empty a their arguments.

You're right, subgenus, I didn't read the link provided by the OP. I was hoping he might summarize it here. But since you brought up the AoF, it reminded me of the time on my mission when, in reading the Bible, I did my own cross reference of scriptures in the Bible that supported the AoF. I don't have them with me right now. I'll have to provide that later. My point was, that the AoF are supported by the Bible.
But let's look at AoF 1. What is the official church teaching here? 1 God, as in the 1832 account of the First Vision, and in the Book of Mosiah? Adam is God? Or 3 separate beings? I'm confused by the words of all these prophets.
AoF2. Methodists also believe this, as Joseph Smith would know, since he studied (and joined?) that church. In fact, the AoF seems to be based off of the Methodist Articles of Religion adopted in 1784.
I see no need to go on with this. The AoF do not seem to be true or exclusive to the Mormon church to me.
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
_Bazooka
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:Soon Brigham Young will be dusted off and paraded around as a condemnation of the church.


The Church just did that! See "Race and the Priesthood"

*note, your scathing would be more impactful if you paid more attention to your spelling and grammar.
:biggrin:
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_Bazooka
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _Bazooka »

A of F question.

Does Mormonism still believe Zion will be built on the American continent? Or has that also been revised?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_CameronMO
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _CameronMO »

Bazooka wrote:A of F question.

Does Mormonism still believe Zion will be built on the American continent? Or has that also been revised?

Maybe? :lol:
Zion wrote:The word Zion has various meanings in the scriptures. The most general definition of the word is “the pure in heart” (D&C 97:21). Zion is often used in this way to refer to the Lord's people or to the Church and its stakes (see D&C 82:14). It has also been used to refer to specific geographical locations.


Additional Information

The word Zion appears repeatedly in all the books of scripture of the Church. In latter-day revelation, Zion is defined as “the pure in heart” (D&C 97:21).

In the early days of this dispensation, Church leaders counseled members to build up Zion by emigrating to a central location. Today our leaders counsel us to build up Zion wherever we live. Members of the Church are asked to remain in their native lands and help establish the Church there. Many temples are being built so Latter-day Saints throughout the world can receive temple blessings.

The word Zion can also refer to specific geographic locations, as follows:

The city of Enoch (see Moses 7:18-21).


The ancient city of Jerusalem (see 2 Samuel 5:6–7; 1 Kings 8:1; 2 Kings 9:28).


The New Jerusalem, which will be built in Jackson County, Missouri (see D&C 45:66-67; 57:1-3; Articles of Faith 1:10).


—See True to the Faith (2004), 189-90

http://www.LDS.org/topics/zion?lang=eng
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
_subgenius
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:
subgenius wrote:Soon Brigham Young will be dusted off and paraded around as a condemnation of the church.


The Church just did that! See "Race and the Priesthood"

*note, your scathing would be more impactful if you paid more attention to your spelling and grammar.
:biggrin:

ironically, "scathing" is an adjective, for which you have provided no noun, or substantive, for modification.
Nevertheless,
Image
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _subgenius »

CameronMO wrote:
subgenius wrote:Obviously the peanut gallery failed to read and comprehend the blog link posted in the OP. The usual bandwagon of superfluous criticisms and armchair pontifications have once again fallen into the worn rut if the road to mediocrity.
Soon Brigham Young will be dusted off and paraded around as a condemnation of the church.
All style and no substance from the usual crowd of mudslingers.
So, what of the articles of faith?
Or the rather concise points from the OP link?
Why no meaningful criticism for anything of value to church or member?
Because their minds are as empty a their arguments.

You're right, subgenus, I didn't read the link provided by the OP. I was hoping he might summarize it here. But since you brought up the AoF, it reminded me of the time on my mission when, in reading the Bible, I did my own cross reference of scriptures in the Bible that supported the AoF. I don't have them with me right now. I'll have to provide that later. My point was, that the AoF are supported by the Bible.
But let's look at AoF 1. What is the official church teaching here? 1 God, as in the 1832 account of the First Vision, and in the Book of Mosiah? Adam is God? Or 3 separate beings? I'm confused by the words of all these prophets.
AoF2. Methodists also believe this, as Joseph Smith would know, since he studied (and joined?) that church. In fact, the AoF seems to be based off of the Methodist Articles of Religion adopted in 1784.
I see no need to go on with this. The AoF do not seem to be true or exclusive to the Mormon church to me.

There seems to be no mystery to the AoF, except in what you seem to be imposing upon it.
Not sure how you are unclear what the church is teaching with AoF1...pretty clear statement. Your, peanut-gallery-esque insertion of extraneous information is just that.
AoF2 - ok?
the OP did not require that any of the church teachings be "exclusive".
Your assertion about what is "true" is surely something that comforts you, and so be it.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_CameronMO
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:27 am

Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _CameronMO »

subgenius wrote:Obviously the peanut gallery failed to read and comprehend the blog link posted in the OP. The usual bandwagon of superfluous criticisms and armchair pontifications have once again fallen into the worn rut if the road to mediocrity.
Soon Brigham Young will be dusted off and paraded around as a condemnation of the church.
All style and no substance from the usual crowd of mudslingers.
So, what of the articles of faith?
Or the rather concise points from the OP link?
Why no meaningful criticism for anything of value to church or member?
Because their minds are as empty a their arguments.

You've posted three times in this topic, now, so what's your contribution? The OP asked: What teachings of the LDS church do you consider to be essential? In other words, what church teachings are so important – so foundational – that if you found out they weren’t true you’d probably leave the church?

Get us back on topic by answering the question, Richard.
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
_Uncle Ed
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Re: What LDS Teachings Are Essential?

Post by _Uncle Ed »

CameronMO wrote:
subgenius wrote:Obviously the peanut gallery failed to read and comprehend the blog link posted in the OP. The usual bandwagon of superfluous criticisms and armchair pontifications have once again fallen into the worn rut if the road to mediocrity.
Soon Brigham Young will be dusted off and paraded around as a condemnation of the church.
All style and no substance from the usual crowd of mudslingers.
So, what of the articles of faith?
Or the rather concise points from the OP link?
Why no meaningful criticism for anything of value to church or member?
Because their minds are as empty a their arguments.

You're right, subgenus, I didn't read the link provided by the OP. I was hoping he might summarize it here. But since you brought up the AoF, it reminded me of the time on my mission when, in reading the Bible, I did my own cross reference of scriptures in the Bible that supported the AoF. I don't have them with me right now. I'll have to provide that later. My point was, that the AoF are supported by the Bible.
But let's look at AoF 1. What is the official church teaching here? 1 God, as in the 1832 account of the First Vision, and in the Book of Mosiah? Adam is God? Or 3 separate beings? I'm confused by the words of all these prophets.
AoF2. Methodists also believe this, as Joseph Smith would know, since he studied (and joined?) that church. In fact, the AoF seems to be based off of the Methodist Articles of Religion adopted in 1784.
I see no need to go on with this. The AoF do not seem to be true or exclusive to the Mormon church to me.

Nothing about the doctrines of the LDS faith are asserted to be exclusive, in fact the opposite: "dispensationism" says that all doctrines have been revealed through God's prophets in the past and thus picked up by the myriad of religions down the ages. So you will find virtually all of them in some partial form or another somewhere.

The "Godhead" is not specified in the temple recommend interview questions. So my further beliefs about who/what "God Is" don't in any way conflict with the temple recommend question. And neither should anyone else's personal beliefs appended to Mormon theology as given in the scriptures and from the pulpit. Nobody is waxing specific or exclusive about the Godhead. Even Joseph Smith was all over the place with his theology, as it morphed throughout his career. This is possibly because "God Is Infinite" and no set of words no matter how clearly framed or of any length whatsoever are going to pin down "God". To do so would make "God" finite. I know Mormons whose theology is blatantly finite because of one of the doctrines that Joseph Smith taught near the end; our gospel doctrine teacher quoted it just two days ago, "the couplet" about God once being a mortal man. This "doctrine" when pursued exclusively leads to a finite conception of God the Father and therefore existence remains inexplicable. But the temple recommend question no. 1 does not go there to any degree and allows the individual to believe in the Mormon Godhead in any of its permutations and much, much more in addition.

And that's how belief in the LDS faith is in everything. Belief must lead to orthopraxy, and that will get you into the temple as sure as the sun will rise. So, only the teachings that are accompanied with resulting orthoprax behavior are essential, and they will change as the expectations change, which is to say, not that much. "Primitive" Mormons drank beer, even whisky, chewed and smoked tobacco, swore a blue streak, even killed their enemies occasionally, engaged in sexual "deviancy" but not immorality, and it was all good with God, because they sustained the prophets, defended the faith and repented too damn fast to be excommunicated. Today, those living like that and being honest will not enter the temples, but back then it was different....
A man should never step a foot into the field,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need arms,
Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38

Man's joy is in Man. - Hávamál 47
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