Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Lem]

Honest question, at what point does what Rosebud is doing to Dehlin become harassment? Does she have carte-blance to continue this for the rest of their lives?

Wait a few years, release a few more texts. Few more years, few more texts. It kind of has revenge porn vibes with how explicit the texts are.

Follow up question:

Rosebud has publicly released a “structured interview” claiming JD couldn’t get it up on one occasion and prematurely ejaculating on another.

Does this qualify as sexual harassment?

Or just tit for splat?

Your impartiality as a podcaster is just shining through.

Don't get me wrong, you have every right to weigh in on this. But your comments do give me a better understanding of your podcast on the topic. Your statement below also gives me a lot of information.

If Rosebud had ceased and desisted as JD asked, there is no reason to suspect the board would ever have gotten involved.

Rosebud could still have been working for Open Stories Foundation doing the thing she loved if she had just backed down when asked and cooled her jets.

Sexual harassment can be a two-way street.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I mean a subordinate can sexually harass a superior. When Rosebud kept haranguing JD for sex after he asked her to stop it was what it was.

- Doc

[Kishkumen]

Actually no, I did not AT ALL get from consig's statements that they should be taken as "it is possible for a person to play victim in order to blackmail a "superior."

To me, telling a women she should have "backed down when asked", and to "stop" when her superior tells her stop, all so she can keep her job, are very specific statements that constitute sexual harassment.

If the argument is that a woman who speaks up in defiance of such orders can then be assumed to be blackmailing a superior, I disagree with that also.

I think it logically follows that the situation described would leave superiors open to exactly that kind of blackmail. In other words, if one contacts one's boss and says, "Sleep with me or I will accuse you of sexual harassment," that would be blackmail and sexual harassment. In this situation, we have texts with Rosebud pushing Dehlin for sex and Dehlin refusing. But her aggression is removed from possible consideration the minute she accuses him of sexual harassment because he is her "superior" and she is his "subordinate."

If she won't stop asking a co-worker to sleep with her, when the co-worker has asked her not to do so, how is that not sexual harassment on her part?

In this situation the blackmail comes later. The blackmail is this: give me back what I want, or I will charge JD with sexual harassment. Other variations, however, would certainly be possible.

I think these are possibilities that should be as open to argument as her accusation against Dehlin. I have seen this kind of thing happen a few times before. In one case a woman superior anonymously and falsely accused a woman subordinate of sexual indiscretion with a woman customer just to undermine the employee. In another case, a woman slept with her male boss and then sued him for physically abusing her, only to be discovered as having falsified the whole thing.

If you were to ask me whether it were hypothetically possible for a person to sleep their way into a company, refuse to drop the affair when the boss wanted to end it, and then retroactively and falsely accuse the boss for purposes of revenge, I would have to say that it certainly is possible. I don't think the general principle of "believe the victims" would convince me to set aside the possible and judge it impossible.

[consiglieri]

Follow up question:

Rosebud has publicly released a “structured interview” claiming JD couldn’t get it up on one occasion and prematurely ejaculating on another.

Does this qualify as sexual harassment?

Or just tit for splat?

Your impartiality as a podcaster is just shining through.

Don't get me wrong, you have every right to weigh in on this. But your comments do give me a better understanding of your podcast on the topic. Your statement below also gives me a lot of information.

If Rosebud had ceased and desisted as JD asked, there is no reason to suspect the board would ever have gotten involved.

Rosebud could still have been working for Open Stories Foundation doing the thing she loved if she had just backed down when asked and cooled her jets.

Sexual harassment can be a two-way street.

Does this mean you don’t find Rosebud’s publicly talking about JD’s penile dysfunctions to be sexual harassment?

[Kishkumen]

I mean a subordinate can sexually harass a superior. When Rosebud kept haranguing JD for sex after he asked her to stop it was what it was.
- Doc

That's one of the things that I find truly mind-blowing about all of this. Rosebud's mere claim to have been sexually harassed is, in the minds of those who believe she was sexually harassed, allowed to erase any evidence to the contrary from the time before she accused him on the grounds that sexually abused people generally don't know when they are being sexually abused. Once she says, "I'm a victim," her entire sexual history with JD is subject to reinterpretation in a very narrow way to reach the pre-determined conclusion of: yes, he did abuse you. It does not matter how consensual it appears. It does not matter that she sometimes seems more insistent on pushing the relationship forward than he does. Once the allegation is made, the evidence must be read to lead to the conclusion that JD was a sexual harasser.

[Kishkumen]

Does this mean you don’t find Rosebud’s publicly talking about JD’s penile dysfunctions to be sexual harassment?

Nah, that's just sweet payback.

[consiglieri]

I mean a subordinate can sexually harass a superior. When Rosebud kept haranguing JD for sex after he asked her to stop it was what it was.
- Doc

That's one of the things that I find truly mind-blowing about all of this. Rosebud's mere claim to have been sexually harassed is, in the minds of those who believe she was sexually harassed, allowed to erase any evidence to the contrary from the time before she accused him on the grounds that sexually abused people generally don't know when they are being sexually abused. Once she says, "I'm a victim," her entire sexual history with JD is subject to reinterpretation in a very narrow way to reach the pre-determined conclusion of: yes, he did abuse you. It does not matter how consensual it appears. It does not matter that she sometimes seems more insistent on pushing the relationship forward than he does. Once the allegation is made, the evidence must be read to lead to the conclusion that JD was a sexual harasser.

Kerry Muhlestein, meet Book of Abraham.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I mean a subordinate can sexually harass a superior. When Rosebud kept haranguing JD for sex after he asked her to stop it was what it was.
- Doc

That's one of the things that I find truly mind-blowing about all of this. Rosebud's mere claim to have been sexually harassed is, in the minds of those who believe she was sexually harassed, allowed to erase any evidence to the contrary from the time before she accused him on the grounds that sexually abused people generally don't know when they are being sexually abused. Once she says, "I'm a victim," her entire sexual history with JD is subject to reinterpretation in a very narrow way to reach the pre-determined conclusion of: yes, he did abuse you. It does not matter how consensual it appears. It does not matter that she sometimes seems more insistent on pushing the relationship forward than he does. Once the allegation is made, the evidence must be read to lead to the conclusion that JD was a sexual harasser.

It was clear she was trying to entrap him, too. That whole gambit was skeezy as “F”.

- Doc

[Fifth Columnist]

Lem, Is there any way JD could have broken off the affair without it being sexual harassment? MS was a two-person operation at the time--JD and Rosebud. It seems the only way to stop the affair is to give them separate responsibilities that would keep them apart, which is what the board tried to do. Rosebud wasn't having any of that so they had to terminate her.

[Kishkumen]

Throughout all of this I am reminded of all of the effort that went into painting Joe Biden as this creepy old man who preyed on women and girls. Funny how I don't hear much about that anymore. There was that one grifter of a false accuser whom people vehemently argued was being truthful when she accused Biden of raping her in that tunnel where people would have undoubtedly, but somehow magically did not, witness the crime. There were falsified videos posted where Biden was made to look like he was groping or stroking some poor lady or girl. It was all completely unhinged, and I remember all of the truly devoted super-lefties who were adamant about Joe Biden being this monster, as well as all of the people who supported Trump who suddenly cared about creepy old men when Biden was the one being accused.

For years we have read Rosebud's many hollow accusations against Dehlin, stuff that was only less farcically outlandish than the Biden accusations because Rosebud liked to leave her bogus accusations understated and therefore more intriguingly mysterious for the folks who have an unending supply of patience or hatred for JD. Now, lo and behold, just like the Biden case, we have gathering together a bad of doughty false accusers to take down Dehlin for not being liberal enough, not being Mormon enough, not being virtuous enough, not being . . . . loved by those who hate him.

And it is just about as credible this time.