i'm not sure how God's free-will determines our free-will and vice versa.
It would seem that God could create ex-nihilio and still provide free-will simply based on His supernatural condition/ability...a condition that may or may not impose free-will upon Him.
It seems that there is an "assumption" being made by the OP.
Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
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_subgenius
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
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_Bazooka
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
subgenius wrote:i'm not sure how God's free-will determines our free-will and vice versa.
It would seem that God could create ex-nihilio and still provide free-will simply based on His supernatural condition/ability...a condition that may or may not impose free-will upon Him.
It seems that there is an "assumption" being made by the OP.
It's as if the Op is setting boundaries on God's powers.
Are there boundaries to God's powers?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
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_subgenius
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
Bazooka wrote:subgenius wrote:i'm not sure how God's free-will determines our free-will and vice versa.
It would seem that God could create ex-nihilio and still provide free-will simply based on His supernatural condition/ability...a condition that may or may not impose free-will upon Him.
It seems that there is an "assumption" being made by the OP.
It's as if the Op is setting boundaries on God's powers.
Are there boundaries to God's powers?
that seems to be the premise...or the "assumption".
Personally i have no issue in the proposition that God is unable to lie, cheat, or be unjust while still endowing us with the ability to choose otherwise.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
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_Bazooka
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
subgenius wrote:that seems to be the premise...or the "assumption".
Personally i have no issue in the proposition that God is unable to lie, cheat, or be unjust while still endowing us with the ability to choose otherwise.
Was it a lie when God told Adam and Eve He didn't want them to eat of the forbidden fruit knowing full well He actually did want Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
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_Uncle Ed
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
God didn't say, "I don't want you eating that stuff". He said that if they did they would surely die. Being immortal before "eating" and mortal afterward made God's word the truth. What he "wanted" is nowhere stated....
A man should never step a foot into the field,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need arms,
Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38
Man's joy is in Man. - Hávamál 47
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need arms,
Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38
Man's joy is in Man. - Hávamál 47
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_Bazooka
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
Uncle Ed wrote:God didn't say, "I don't want you eating that stuff". He said that if they did they would surely die. Being immortal before "eating" and mortal afterward made God's word the truth. What he "wanted" is nowhere stated....
16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/3?lang=eng
Seems pretty clear to me.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
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_subgenius
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
Bazooka wrote:subgenius wrote:that seems to be the premise...or the "assumption".
Personally i have no issue in the proposition that God is unable to lie, cheat, or be unjust while still endowing us with the ability to choose otherwise.
Was it a lie when God told Adam and Eve He didn't want them to eat of the forbidden fruit knowing full well He actually did want Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit?
The scriptures do not support your statement. He commanded them not to eat, Genesis makes no specific mention of what He "wanted" with that commandment....do you have information to that reveals this "want"?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
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_subgenius
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
Bazooka wrote:Uncle Ed wrote:God didn't say, "I don't want you eating that stuff". He said that if they did they would surely die. Being immortal before "eating" and mortal afterward made God's word the truth. What he "wanted" is nowhere stated....16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/3?lang=eng
Seems pretty clear to me.
This says nothing about what God wanted from the situation. If He wanted them to disobey a commandment then.....
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
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_Chap
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
Bazooka wrote:Uncle Ed wrote:God didn't say, "I don't want you eating that stuff". He said that if they did they would surely die. Being immortal before "eating" and mortal afterward made God's word the truth. What he "wanted" is nowhere stated....16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/3?lang=eng
Seems pretty clear to me.
subgenius wrote:This says nothing about what God wanted from the situation. If He wanted them to disobey a commandment then.....
Can we have another example from the Bible of a commandment by God that we know he intended to be disobeyed?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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_Bazooka
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Re: Ex Nihilo Creation - Problems
Chap wrote:Can we have another example from the Bible of a commandment by God that we know he intended to be disobeyed?
"Thou shalt not kill"
"And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands;"
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)