Prayer and Learning by the Spirit

[_subgenius]

yea, for example, how do you prepare for prayer, how do you pray, how do the answers come to you? I assume we are not talking about the family prayer here, or a prayer of food.

Your lack of willingness to share anything here makes me wonder if your prayers are limited to the simpler quick daily family prayers and if you are simply regurgitating how you have been taught it should be.

obviously you are free to "wonder" about whatever you like...but i appreciate your passive aggressive reverse psychology...unfortunately I am not 5 years old.

So are you moving the goal posts to be specific about Prayer? - since before you had inquired about the mechanics of "Prayer and Learning by the Spirit" - your post here seems to have excluded any further explanation of what you meant for the mechanics of "Learning by the Spirit".

Nevertheless

My Mechanics of Prayer summarized:
1. Preparation (the Getting Ready) - varies, but mostly continuing with life experiences both deliberate and not; also by a conscious decision (also note previous mention of "spontaneous").
2. Execution (the How) - varies from passive to active forms (i.e. stationary, moving...vocal, not-vocal)
3. Delivery (the Comes to Me) - varies from tangible to intangible (i.e. corporeal, incorporeal...)
note:
typically all the above occur in English or some other discernible form (i.e. graphics, audible tones, rhythms, etc..)

So, instead of pretending to be interested in my mechanics, why not just spew forth your criticism(s) of what you have so thoughtfully determined as being the LDS prescribed "mechanics" of prayer/learning by the spirit...followed by, surely, what must be your inspired "corrections".

or do you have a point to this exercise?

[_RockSlider]

So, instead of pretending to be interested in my mechanics, why not just spew forth your criticism(s) of what you have so thoughtfully determined as being the LDS prescribed "mechanics" of prayer/learning by the spirit...followed by, surely, what must be your inspired "corrections".
or do you have a point to this exercise?

Subgenius, please review the OP.

For example

"I would like to hear of others experiences with prayer and learning by the spirit"

Why do you assume that I have some criticisms or inspired corrections to make? I've simply shared a couple of my experiences with Prayer and Learning by the Spirit. I've also tried to show that these are genuine and were near and dear to my heart.

I've also tried to encourage you to do the same.

Jay seems to have disappeared from the discussion, and I find it odd that there are no other members with anything of value to share here and that your responses are so cold and calculated.

[_Bazooka]

So, instead of pretending to be interested in my mechanics, why not just spew forth your criticism(s) of what you have so thoughtfully determined as being the LDS prescribed "mechanics" of prayer/learning by the spirit...followed by, surely, what must be your inspired "corrections".
or do you have a point to this exercise?

Subgenius, please review the OP.

For example

"I would like to hear of others experiences with prayer and learning by the spirit"

Why do you assume that I have some criticisms or inspired corrections to make? I've simply shared a couple of my experiences with Prayer and Learning by the Spirit. I've also tried to show that these are genuine and were near and dear to my heart.

I've also tried to encourage you to do the same.

Jay seems to have disappeared from the discussion, and I find it odd that there are no other members with anything of value to share here and that your responses are so cold and calculated.

Rock, it may be that subgenius is either not confident in, or embarrassed about, the experience he thinks he has had.
Given the unreliability and contradictory nature of such experiences (Was it God? But He told me something different...etc, etc) maybe subgenius is concerned that we won't take his experience seriously. I think you will. But he seems to be erring on the side of "it's sacred, not secret".

[_subgenius]

Rock, it may be that subgenius is either not confident in, or embarrassed about, the experience he thinks he has had.
Given the unreliability and contradictory nature of such experiences (Was it God? But He told me something different...etc, etc) maybe subgenius is concerned that we won't take his experience seriously. I think you will. But he seems to be erring on the side of "it's sacred, not secret".

and yet there is still another option that i may have chosen...such as not choosing to convey the specifics on any experience i have had. The reason(s) for that choice being irrelevant to your point(s) or argument(s).
My not revealing details has no relation to confidence, embarrassment...
there are many reason(s) why i may or may not reveal such information...for example:
1. I recognize that knowledge is power - a power evident by your desire to "know what i know" and for you to make posts like you just did above.
2. I recognize that you (plural) may not be trustworthy with this information.
3. I recognize that individuals may have a tradition of not revealing such information.
4. I recognize that information is often not forthcoming when requests are vexatious.
5. I recognize that information may make another party vulnerable.
etc.

as with Rock, i appreciate your attempt passive-aggressive reverse psychology....(or is this now some sort of good cop bad cop routine you two have worked out?)

[_subgenius]

http://www.mormonchannel.org/video/morm ... 7858982001

a 3 part (each part about two minutes) message on this subject from Elder Bednar.

Not sure why these messages are so difficult for Bazooka to discern or why Rock finds them as a source of justifiable alienation in the church.

[_RockSlider]

http://www.mormonchannel.org/video/mormon-messages?v=1737858982001

a 3 part (each part about two minutes) message on this subject from Elder Bednar.

Not sure why these messages are so difficult for Bazooka to discern or why Rock finds them as a source of justifiable alienation in the church.

Thanks for the videos, I viewed them with interest. It seems I hardly recognize the church I left 10 years or so ago.

I've been thinking a lot about the whole pearls before swine, and sacred not secret aspects of the church. Funny how even two members in good standing would feel uncomfortable sharing their own personal experiences of learning by the spirit. With somethings testified and said by others, assumptions of their powerful experiences often assumed and envied, and yet the unspoken rule of don't ask, don't tell protecting all. Everyone left to assumptions of just how this works in their piers. Taken to the highest levels, even the FP and Apostles are forbidden from sharing their personal experiences with each other. Experiences of which are suppose to distinguish them from all mankind ... Special Witnesses of Jesus Christ.

I find it interesting that the Book of Mormon is so full of examples of powerful revelation and yet, for us, in our day ... a light switch (don't expect it), subtle, barely perceivable changes (yea more frequent), a cloud of fog with some confusing blinding light leading one more step (yea, expect this one).

What ever happened to the still small voice, to dreams and visions? With wrestling all night with the Lord for answers?

Years back it was taught that the world had the benefit of the "Light of Christ" and that the Ordination of receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost was all about the higher plateau, of one having the HG as a constant companion, a gift along with other things that provided personal revelation, whisperings, dreams and visions ... to truly be taught by the spirit. It seems that today the two are indistinguishable.

Well, as I've noted already and as the Pedersen letter that I posted tends to support, any old school attempt at "Prayer and Learning by the Spirit" tends to leave one on forbidden paths.

I can surely see why the church has steered the ship from the old teachings. Good news is maybe it will save future generations from much pain.

[_SteelHead]

Pages and pages and yet nothing that actually shows that this learning is by some disembodied being and not internal.

[_RockSlider]

Pages and pages and yet nothing that actually shows that this learning is by some disembodied being and not internal.

I have been more interested to try and focus on "what was learned" setting aside any arguments/suggestions about needing some tums or something.

Image 1000 anonymous TBM's providing a list of things they learned from the spirit.

For example, from my day, I assume you might find a high percentage of those dealing with the end of the world (like we saw here from the only ones willing to share).

Maybe sub would be more comfortable at least trying to itemize some things that might be learned from the spirit?

[_Bazooka]

Pages and pages and yet nothing that actually shows that this learning is by some disembodied being and not internal.

Nobody likes the person who points out the elephant in the room.....

[_SteelHead]

How about the proponents of the holy ghost provide some tangible metric demonstrating that said ghost actually provided value in people's lives?