So if there was harassment, it was unintentional (and I have no clue if this should or does make a difference - just curious more than anything else), because he misunderstood her relationship to Open Stories Foundation and also his and her relationship with each other within Open Stories Foundation?
It looks like John was unclear of her status and probably was not considering it at all when they were having the affair. I doubt he thought in his mind "Well, this is ok since she's just a contractor."
I think a Mormon man is more likely to be worried about his loving spouse, temple covenants, excommunication threat, etc... before he considers, unintended or otherwise, workplace sexual harassment.
But the point remains, is it shown in that e-mail that he unaware of her relationship to Open Stories Foundation, therefore how do you prove sexual harassment?
I think the crux of the issue is that while me and others believe the primary reason that Rosebud was terminated was because of her continuing insistence and harassment that JD be with her,
Rosebud paints almost the exact picture, but in reverse, in her texts to Joanna. That she told JD many, many times to let it go, but he wouldn't. Then he would "get in a down mood" and "threaten" her. "He'd criticize every part of my job. And say it wasn't necessary anymore."
But the point remains, is it shown in that e-mail that he unaware of her relationship to Open Stories Foundation, therefore how do you prove sexual harassment?
Why would ignorance be a defense? If he sexually harassed her, he sexually harassed her.
I think the crux of the issue is that while me and others believe the primary reason that Rosebud was terminated was because of her continuing insistence and harassment that JD be with her,
Rosebud paints almost the exact picture, but in reverse, in her texts to Joanna. That she told JD many, many times to let it go, but he wouldn't. Then he would "get in a down mood" and "threaten" her. "He'd criticize every part of my job. And say it wasn't necessary anymore."
We know of at least one instance, in 2011, where Rosebud explicitly told John to go back to his wife and that they should stop pursuing each other. We also know that John's immediate response was that this reaction only made him want to pursue her more.
So it's not hard to draw a line from that to Rosebud's texts to Joanna.
I think the crux of the issue is that while me and others believe the primary reason that Rosebud was terminated was because of her continuing insistence and harassment that JD be with her, others believe that it was simply because JD wanted 'out' of the relationship and leveraged his position to accomplish that. I agree that the way the board and JD pursued this issue was terrible and messy. But it seems clear to me that it was Rosebud's behavior was the primary factor of the termination.
So if she had been a quiet and compliant mistress, accepting what she was offered and never asking for more, she could have kept her job?
I think a Mormon man is more likely to be worried about his loving spouse, temple covenants, excommunication threat, etc... before he considers, unintended or otherwise, workplace sexual harassment.
Considering that he voluntarily had an affair, I think that ship has sailed. If you are arguing that after he wanted the affair to end, he was more concerned with his standing with his spouse, and his church, then of course, I agree. Getting rid of a problematic mistress is always easier when you invoke family and church. Too bad neither of them were thinking family and church when they started this sordid affair.
I think the crux of the issue is that while me and others believe the primary reason that Rosebud was terminated was because of her continuing insistence and harassment that JD be with her,
Rosebud paints almost the exact picture, but in reverse, in her texts to Joanna. That she told JD many, many times to let it go, but he wouldn't. Then he would "get in a down mood" and "threaten" her. "He'd criticize every part of my job. And say it wasn't necessary anymore."
What is confusing me is that Rosebud in the very text chain you are quoting says that it was a consensual affair between them both. She then says that she felt her job depended on being with JD. That makes absolutely no sense. You CANNOT be in a consensual affair but at the same time feel compelled to be in it. That is the antithesis of consent. Rosebud is not clear in her accusations. Was it consensual? Was is not? If it wasn't, don't admit to it being a consensual affair. This back and forth between consensual and not implies to me that it was indeed a consensual affair at the time, but in retrospect she as attributed negative connotations due to the results not being the results she wanted (JD choosing his wife and kids over her)
I think the crux of the issue is that while me and others believe the primary reason that Rosebud was terminated was because of her continuing insistence and harassment that JD be with her, others believe that it was simply because JD wanted 'out' of the relationship and leveraged his position to accomplish that. I agree that the way the board and JD pursued this issue was terrible and messy. But it seems clear to me that it was Rosebud's behavior was the primary factor of the termination.
So if she had been a quiet and compliant mistress, accepting what she was offered and never asking for more, she could have kept her job?
No because JD was ENDING the affair. It was because Rosebud kept attempting to seduce and berate him after the fact he made it clear it was over was the reason she lost her job. At that point JD was no longer consenting to continuing the affair. That constitutes sexual harassment. Her and JD's employment was predicated on the fact that there could be NO sexual relationship between them. Rosebud continued to attempt to sexually persuade JD to continue the affair.
"I advise all to go on to perfection and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness." -Joseph Smith
I think a Mormon man is more likely to be worried about his loving spouse, temple covenants, excommunication threat, etc... before he considers, unintended or otherwise, workplace sexual harassment.
Considering that he voluntarily had an affair, I think that ship has sailed. If you are arguing that after he wanted the affair to end, he was more concerned with his standing with his spouse, and his church, then of course, I agree. Getting rid of a problematic mistress is always easier when you invoke family and church. Too bad neither of them were thinking family and church when they started this sordid affair.
Yes hindsight is always 20/20. Affairs are terrible and hurt people. There is no evidence so suggest that had Rosebud stopped attempting to pursue JD that this would have ended the same way.
"I advise all to go on to perfection and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness." -Joseph Smith
No because JD was ENDING the affair. It was because Rosebud kept attempting to seduce and berate him after the fact he made it clear it was over was the reason she lost her job. At that point JD was no longer consenting to continuing the affair. That constitutes sexual harassment.
It's not clear to me who you think was being sexually harassed. Could you clarify?
