Thoughts regarding God's Grace

[_LeVay]

The Biblical god has all the hallmarks of an abusive spouse - could this be real reason why the Bible likens him unto a "bridegroom"?

Grace that comes from an abuser will always be self-serving and hypocritical.

[_subgenius]

Perhaps you could explain what exactly you mean by "grace alone". It is a term I am unfamiliar with as you use it. As scripture does very clearly demonstrate, the book of Romans being a good example, salvation is ultimately by God's grace (merit and favor we do not earn or deserve) but the requirement for that grace to be effective to salvation requires faith in the Son.

Sola Fide

Romans is actually not a good example...unless you are a Roman..often this book is used to justify a narrow "grace alone" argument...but this book is rather audience specific, so me thinks that it contextually emphasizes what was necessary for the edification of the Romans.

When evangelicals talk about "earn or deserve" it seems to imply that certain actions could somehow bring about "grace" even if the actor does not want it or holds something altogether different in their heart....the rather cliché scripture is unavoidable..."faith without works is dead"...the book of James expounds on this sentiment quite extensively in the 2nd chapter
"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

This is but one of many scriptures that clearly illustrate the necessary relationship between faith and work....these are not and cannot be mutually exclusive on this notion.

Now, more importantly the idea of "Grace" is almost always underused by evangelicals...they narrow its meaning, for some reason, to merely the acceptance of Christ...when, in fact, Grace encompasses the acceptance of Christ and of His Gospel Ordinances.
i.e.
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

So, yes you are correct that Grace requires faith in Christ but it requires action as well.

[_subgenius]

The Biblical god has all the hallmarks of an abusive spouse - could this be real reason why the Bible likens him unto a "bridegroom"?

Satan being a much more comforting role model?....geez you're not short of delusions are ye?
Grace that comes from an abuser will always be self-serving and hypocritical.

Perhaps if you had a more appropriate and accurate understanding of God's and Satan's nature and character you would not come across as so confused with and disenfranchised from reality.

[_SteelHead]

How is LDS gods insistence that all the glory from the plan be lauded on him not self serving?

My work.
My glory.

[_LeVay]

Satan being a much more comforting role model?

More comforting than whom? Do you have someone specific in mind?

....geez you're not short of delusions are ye?

I think you're confusing me with someone who believes in secret messages from a magic rock in a hat.

Grace that comes from an abuser will always be self-serving and hypocritical.

By George I think she's got it!

Perhaps if you had a more appropriate and accurate understanding of God's and Satan's nature and character you would not come across as so confused with and disenfranchised from reality.

Please feel free to elaborate.

[_Albion]

On the contrary, subgenious, Romans is an excellent book on which to base an understanding of Christian theology on the concept of grace....perhaps the deepest theological writing from all of Paul's works.
You are not the first Mormon I have heard attempt to dismiss it...I suspect on the basis that it clearly destroys any Mormon argument on the relationship of grace to salvation. Far from "Romans...actually not" being "..a good example unless you are Roman"...it is the book at the forefront of any discussion on the subject since it was not written to Romans per se but to Christians in Rome, a subtle distinction from the way you put it in your dismissal of the book. As to your charge that it is " rather audience specific", every letter written by Paul was "audience specific" but the principles and truths have general application to all believers.

I made no specific mention of works and in your haste to demonstrate your understanding of Christian theology you demonstrate your lack of understanding of it. Paul clearly states that salvation (and here I use the term in the generally understood Christian context rather than the Mormon one) is by grace "not by works lest any man boast". Were you to read the book that you are so dismissive of, you would find that righteousness that brings salvation is a free gift from God and not something that can be earned by our works. If it could be earned by good works it would be wages due and not a gift. Are good works the mark of a believing practicing Christian? Of course they are...but they are the works of the Spirit filled believer that flow out of faith and God's saving grace and not the means to earn that grace in the first place. The fullness of God's grace is found in his Son who died for sinful man at Calvary...a fullness of grace that was given "while we were yet sinners".

[_Albion]

As an addendum...I do believe that God pours out his grace...even to those who are far from him and who do not consciously seek him. I believe it is not something God does but what he is in his essence. God has been described as the "hound of heaven" because from the moment a person is born God pursues that person giving ample opportunity in this life for direction to him...God draws the unbeliever, pouring out his prevenient grace in every way possible....so that all men are without excuse.

[_LeVay]

Is this the same god who loves us so much that he's willing to torture and punish us for all eternity if we don't love him back?

That's not love. If it was, then the Video Diary of Ricardo López would be the greatest love story of all time.

[_Bazooka]

Personally I think this would read better if the last line was:
"From what I'm gonna do if you let me in..."

[_subgenius]

Is this the same god who loves us so much that he's willing to torture and punish us for all eternity if we don't love him back?

That's not love. If it was, then the Video Diary of Ricardo López would be the greatest love story of all time.

Your feeble attempt to personify God is the first symptom of your confusion and inaccurate understanding.