The Book of Mormon contridicts Mormonism

[_Bazooka]

So which is it, Subby? A, B, or C?

The Erotic Apologist,

Does subby:
A. Not understand the question
B. Not understand the doctrine
C. Neither understand the question, nor the doctrine

I'm gonna have to push you for an answer.....

[_Quasimodo]

So which is it, Subby? A, B, or C?

The Erotic Apologist,

Does subby:
A. Not understand the question
B. Not understand the doctrine
C. Neither understand the question, nor the doctrine

I'm gonna have to push you for an answer.....

Two cents (pence).

A. Subby does understand the question.
B. Subby does understand the doctrine.
C. Subby would rather not answer any question of substance (doesn't make him look too good).

[_Bazooka]

Two cents (pence).

A. Subby does understand the question.
B. Subby does understand the doctrine.
C. Subby would rather not answer any question of substance (doesn't make him look too good).

You are not wrong there Quasi.
Had a 15 year old double malt the other evening. It was like an internal bear hug. Yum.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

So which is it, Subby? A, B, or C?

The Erotic Apologist,

Does subby:
A. Not understand the question
B. Not understand the doctrine
C. Neither understand the question, nor the doctrine

I'm gonna have to push you for an answer.....

Bearing in mind Subby's breathtaking inability to stay on topic, I'd guess the most obvious answer to your question would have be this cool picture of an airplane...

[_Bazooka]

But for the example let's use someone born in the USA in 1965 but who never gets exposed to the Gospel during their lifetime.

O.K. let's use that example. Go ahead and present your case.

-7up

You mean "go ahead and present your case....again".

Man A - born 1965 in Texas, lives his life without coming into contact with the LDS Gospel. Dies.
Man B - born 1965 in Texas, lives his life but rejects the missionaries at his door, out of hand as he isn't interested in religion. Dies.
Man C - born 1965 in Texas, lives his life within the LDS Gospel (baptised at 8 etc) but fails to live up to the standards required. Dies.

Which Man (according to LDS doctrine) is in better standing with God at the point at which he dies?


*please, before you go off on your tangents, just answer this^ simple question. Based solely on what I have told you about them, is it man A, B or C?

Still waiting 7up......

[_subgenius]

Still waiting 7up......

would it not be easier, and less tedious for those of us reading, if you just posted what you thought the doctrine was with regard to your deceased Texans?
(or post some obscure BY quote that is not doctrine but you will promote it as such anyway).
Your attempts at "gotcha" questions always fall flat and accomplish nothing except some sort of intellectual masturbation ritual for you.
If you think you know better then why be a jerk about it...why not just attempt to prove it?

[_Bazooka]

Still waiting 7up......

would it not be easier, and less tedious for those of us reading, if you just posted what you thought the doctrine was with regard to your deceased Texans?
(or post some obscure BY quote that is not doctrine but you will promote it as such anyway).
Your attempts at "gotcha" questions always fall flat and accomplish nothing except some sort of intellectual masturbation ritual for you.
If you think you know better then why be a jerk about it...why not just attempt to prove it?

On the basis of Church doctrine it is clear that Man A has the best standing in God's eyes.
The other two failed and so will receive appropriate judgement.
Man A, didn't fail anything and has the chance to accept a posthumous set of ordinances at the point in which he knows for sure there is a next life and what it looks like.

[_subgenius]

On the basis of Church doctrine it is clear that Man A has the best standing in God's eyes.
The other two failed and so will receive appropriate judgement.
Man A, didn't fail anything and has the chance to accept a posthumous set of ordinances at the point in which he knows for sure there is a next life and what it looks like.

Ok, that is your answer to the question....can cite the church doctrine that is your basis for that answer?

[_Bazooka]

On the basis of Church doctrine it is clear that Man A has the best standing in God's eyes.
The other two failed and so will receive appropriate judgement.
Man A, didn't fail anything and has the chance to accept a posthumous set of ordinances at the point in which he knows for sure there is a next life and what it looks like.

Ok, that is your answer to the question....can cite the church doctrine that is your basis for that answer?

Celestial

“They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized, … that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit.” These are they who overcome the world by their faith. They are just and true so that the Holy Ghost can seal their blessings upon them. (See D&C 76:51–53.) Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple (see D&C 131:1–4). All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever (see D&C 76:62).

Through the work we do in temples, all people who have lived on the earth can have an equal opportunity to receive the fulness of the gospel and the ordinances of salvation so they can inherit a place in the highest degree of celestial glory.

Terrestrial

These are they who rejected the gospel on earth but afterward received it in the spirit world. These are the honorable people on the earth who were blinded to the gospel of Jesus Christ by the craftiness of men. These are also they who received the gospel and a testimony of Jesus but then were not valiant. They will be visited by Jesus Christ but not by our Heavenly Father. (See D&C 76:73–79.)

Telestial

These people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in hell until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected. “These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.” These people are as numerous as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. They will be visited by the Holy Ghost but not by the Father or the Son. (See D&C 76:81–88, 103–6, 109.)

Outer Darkness

These are they who had testimonies of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord but allowed Satan to overcome them. They denied the truth and defied the power of the Lord. There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. They will not have a kingdom of glory. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. (See D&C 76:28–35, 44–48.)

https://www.LDS.org/manual/gospel-princ ... t?lang=eng

3 For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.

https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... lang=eng#2

Better to aim low and hit then aim high and fall short.

[_seven7up]

You mean "go ahead and present your case....again".

Man A - born 1965 in Texas, lives his life without coming into contact with the LDS Gospel. Dies.
Man B - born 1965 in Texas, lives his life but rejects the missionaries at his door, out of hand as he isn't interested in religion. Dies.
Man C - born 1965 in Texas, lives his life within the LDS Gospel (baptised at 8 etc) but fails to live up to the standards required. Dies.

Which Man (according to LDS doctrine) is in better standing with God at the point at which he dies?

*please, before you go off on your tangents, just answer this^ simple question. Based solely on what I have told you about them, is it man A, B or C?

No, I will not answer this question because it is IMPOSSIBLE to answer "based solely on what [you] have told me about them." It is an utterly assumption filled question. Quite frankly, it is NOT a simple question.

What if God would have placed the spirit of Man A into the position of man B or C? You would get a different result. I already described how complicated this can get. In an earlier discussion, I explained that God places distinct individuals in distinct positions based on His omniscient wisdom. No two spirits are the same and no two situations are the same. I answered your question before, and now I answered it again.

- - -- -There is so much to consider here:

What kind of life did Man A live? Did he live his life according to the dictates of his conscience? Would he have accepted the gospel if it was presented to him?

Did the Holy Spirit inspire Man B when the missionaries went to the door? Did Man B reject the Holy Spirit's invitation to listen to the missionaries? Did Man B live a noble life?

What do you mean Man C did not live up to the standards required? Nobody is perfect. Did man C repent after not living up to certain standards?

If you think about it, each one of these persons may not have lived up to the standards that God expected for each of the individuals in each of their unique positions.

I will say this: The ideal position would be Man D, who is presented the restored Gospel and then lives it. That is the better position to be in. Some people are placed by God to be in that position, so that they can be exalted. Others are placed in the position to hear the gospel, and they reject it. Then at the judgement bar, they will have no excuse at all, having been given the opportunity to embrace the fulness of truth, but then rejected it.

-7up