Lesson from Abraham

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_LittleNipper
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _LittleNipper »

huckelberry wrote:NIpper, flesh decomposes in months or perhaps a few years. Why would you believe it would last five thousand years from a hypothetical flood? Asked another way, if it lasted five thousand years why not longer? A lack of exposure to oxygen is a possible cause. But beyond that the evidence for an ancient earth with processes uninerupted for millions of years is what I haves seen with my own eyes hands and feet. I am not relying upon the opinions of experts. Even if i go blind the lies from your websites will not erase what I have seen and know to be true.


Here is the "opinion" that evolutionists have come up with and expect students to accept........ It is not logical to simply ignore the likelihood that main reason fossils exist at all is because of a catastrophic event. And the Flood is that event.
Please see: http://www.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/2 ... 49214.html

What is funny, is if this "miracle" was what Creationists came up with, it would have been ridiculed or ignored. It seems to me that it takes SO MUCH MORE faith to believe that tissue would last HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of years under any NATURAL circumstance than to figure that the circumstance took place a mere 6000 years ago.
_subgenius
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _subgenius »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:I must beg to disagree entirely. When God created Adam and Eve, they walked with God. It is apparent to anyone who studies the Bible that Man forsook God. God did not desert man.
But what if you're not a Christian? What if you're not predisposed to accept the Bible's supernatural claims as truthful? If you're not, then this is all basically meaningless. When you preach the Bible to an unbeliever it's basically the same as when a Mormon preaches the Book of Mormon to you. To you the Book of Mormon irrelevant; to me, the Bible is irrelevant.


you mean as irrelevant as an atheist preaching his/her opinion to a Christian?

I appreciate your point to an extent, but it fails to resolve the fact that most Christian Doctrines promote/command followers to "share" the Gospel with non-believers...to "preach" to anyone and everyone - especially those who are not Christian.
Soooo......

What is the atheist's motivation?


Hint, perhaps atheists are necessarily... -
Image
Image

(stubborn and empty?)
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

LittleNipper wrote:Here is the "opinion" that evolutionists have come up with and expect students to accept........ It is not logical to simply ignore the likelihood that main reason fossils exist at all is because of a catastrophic event. And the Flood is that event.
Please see: http://www.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/2 ... 49214.html
I'm having trouble believing you bothered to look at either of these links, because they both contain reprints of the same article by Stephanie Pappas.

Neither of these reprints talks about a Great Flood.


LittleNipper wrote:What is funny, is if this "miracle" was what Creationists came up with, it would have been ridiculed or ignored.
That's a very interesting theory, Nipper. How do you propose to test this theory of yours?


LittleNipper wrote:It seems to me that it takes SO MUCH MORE faith to believe that tissue would last HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of years under any NATURAL circumstance than to figure that the circumstance took place a mere 6000 years ago.
No--it's not a matter of faith; it's a matter of a hypothesis that Mary Schweitzer and the other molecular paleontologist at North Carolina State University are busy testing.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

subgenius wrote:you mean as irrelevant as an atheist preaching his/her opinion to a Christian?
Why, yes. Thank you, Subby.


subgenius wrote:I appreciate your point to an extent, but it fails to resolve the fact that most Christian Doctrines promote/command followers to "share" the Gospel with non-believers...to "preach" to anyone and everyone - especially those who are not Christian.
Soooo......
This is not an issue that one needs to "resolve".


subgenius wrote:What is the atheist's motivation?
Why don't you go and ask them?


subgenius wrote:(stubborn and empty?)
If that makes you feel better.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_subgenius
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _subgenius »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
subgenius wrote:you mean as irrelevant as an atheist preaching his/her opinion to a Christian?
Why, yes. Thank you, Subby.

you are welcome


The Erotic Apologist wrote:
subgenius wrote:I appreciate your point to an extent, but it fails to resolve the fact that most Christian Doctrines promote/command followers to "share" the Gospel with non-believers...to "preach" to anyone and everyone - especially those who are not Christian.
Soooo......
This is not an issue that one needs to "resolve".

Because its resolution is readily apparent....to everyone but you?
After all, you are the only one asking about it.


The Erotic Apologist wrote:
subgenius wrote:What is the atheist's motivation?
Why don't you go and ask them?

because that would defeat the purpose of my obviously rhetorical question


The Erotic Apologist wrote:
subgenius wrote:(stubborn and empty?)
If that makes you feel better.

your sincerity about "feelings" is abundantly clear, yet sophomoric when up against responses like yours here.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Your surrender is graciously accepted, Subby. :biggrin:
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_huckelberry
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _huckelberry »

LittleNipper wrote:. It is not logical to simply ignore the likelihood that main reason fossils exist at all is because of a catastrophic event. And the Flood is that event.


As far as speaking about the old age of the earth which I described as known to me with my own eyes hands and feet fossils are not involved. There are no fossils where I live. I live in an area where sedimentary rocks are buried beneath three thousand feet of hardened lava. Many layers of basalt have built up to great thickness over an area of many thousands of square miles. Where in the Bible is this described? When could it have happened? How is it possible for there to have been ice ages come and go after this time of huge volcanic eruptions? when were these volcanic rocks lifted up into mountains and then had canyons cut away through them? There are deep canyons cut by streams there are higher elevations where glaciers deep bowls out of the sold rock. These simple things took long periods of time yet they are on top of sedimentary rock. If sedimentary rock comes from the flood everything listed above happened after the flood. The flood must have happened millions of years ago if it happened at all..

I do not see how one flood helps to explain fossils. Different animals are located in different layers of rock. How did the flood keep the dinosaurs segregated from the cats and horses? How are the sea creatures segregated from the land animals? Why are there some (in Idaho many thousands of feet) of sedimentary rock with only very tiny or no creatures?
_LittleNipper
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _LittleNipper »

huckelberry wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:. It is not logical to simply ignore the likelihood that main reason fossils exist at all is because of a catastrophic event. And the Flood is that event.


As far as speaking about the old age of the earth which I described as known to me with my own eyes hands and feet fossils are not involved. There are no fossils where I live. I live in an area where sedimentary rocks are buried beneath three thousand feet of hardened lava. Many layers of basalt have built up to great thickness over an area of many thousands of square miles. Where in the Bible is this described? When could it have happened? How is it possible for there to have been ice ages come and go after this time of huge volcanic eruptions? when were these volcanic rocks lifted up into mountains and then had canyons cut away through them? There are deep canyons cut by streams there are higher elevations where glaciers deep bowls out of the sold rock. These simple things took long periods of time yet they are on top of sedimentary rock. If sedimentary rock comes from the flood everything listed above happened after the flood. The flood must have happened millions of years ago if it happened at all..

I do not see how one flood helps to explain fossils. Different animals are located in different layers of rock. How did the flood keep the dinosaurs segregated from the cats and horses? How are the sea creatures segregated from the land animals? Why are there some (in Idaho many thousands of feet) of sedimentary rock with only very tiny or no creatures?

“The waves of death overwhelmed me;
floods of destruction swept over me.
The grave wrapped its tentacles around me;
death laid a trap in my path.
But in my pain I cried out to the Lord;
yes, I cried to my God for help.
He heard me from his sanctuary;
my cry reached his ears.
“Then the earth quaked and trembled.
The foundations of the heavens shook;
they quaked because of his anger.
Smoke poured from his nostrils;
fierce flames leaped from his mouth.
Glowing coals blazed forth from him.
He opened the heavens and came down;
dark storm clouds were beneath his feet.
Mounted on a mighty angelic being, he flew,
soaring on the wings of the wind.
He shrouded himself in darkness,
veiling his approach with dense rain clouds.
A great brightness shone around him,
and burning coals[d] blazed forth.
The Lord thundered from heaven;
the voice of the Most High resounded.
He shot arrows and scattered his enemies;
his lightning flashed, and they were confused.
Then at the command of the Lord,
at the blast of his breath,
the bottom of the sea could be seen,
and the foundations of the earth were laid bare.
“He reached down from heaven and rescued me;
he drew me out of deep waters.
He rescued me from my powerful enemies,
from those who hated me and were too strong for me.
They attacked me at a moment when I was in distress,
but the Lord uplifted me.
He led me to a place of safety;
he rescued me because he delights in me.
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _huckelberry »

Sounds like the eruption of Mt St Helens. It was quite a show. I suppose other people might imagine other things in those images.
_huckelberry
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Re: Lesson from Abraham

Post by _huckelberry »

"It would present true, unified answers to the difficult questions of life."
//////////////

such as.
should we hold african slaves?
should we return slaves to their masters
should we fight a civil war to hold the union together or to free slaves?
Is it ok to break away from the authority of the king?
Do kings rule by divine right?
How do you decide which witches must be killed?
How do you decide how to treat the civil rights of people of alien religious beliefs?
How do you decide what to do with people who teach error or break away from the established authorities?
what happens to my atheist uncle who committed suicide
How can I see life after death as happy without that uncle should be be gone?
what about family members closer to me who are not Christian believers.?
How can humanity ever recover from the horror of so many loved ones being sent to hell? lobotomy?
///////

How about a simple question. How can you tell when the Bible is speaking with a literal use of words and when does it use other forms a communication? I am sure it is plain and literal as can be sometimes, but othertimes....
"Then the earth quaked and trembled.
The foundations of the heavens shook;
they quaked because of his anger.
Smoke poured from his nostrils;
fierce flames leaped from his mouth.
Glowing coals blazed forth from him.
He opened the heavens and came down;
dark storm clouds were beneath his feet.
Mounted on a mighty angelic being, he flew,"

Most people would read this and much of the rest of the poem as being something far away from what is called literal. Can a person be sure however? A person could decide to read it as completely literal if they want to.
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