Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Kishkumen]

He's telling her she can't do any of the things she was doing because it would involve working with him.

And he wants to downsize. No more side projects.

If she gets rehired, what is she supposed to do?

Yeah, clearly. But the thing is, as Dr. Moore has pointed out, this is start-up, small operation stuff. He was really dumb and inappropriate to handle things in this way, but this all fits Dr. Moore’s argument to a t. I agree that this sucks, but it is also true. If JD did not think doing this stuff was feasible for various reasons, it wasn’t going to happen as a business decision. I am surprised he is so open about it, and, in a funny way, the artless way in which he does so suggests that he is not the manipulative mastermind his enemies depict him as being.

[Kishkumen]

Telling people the conferences were financial losers is such and easy and understandable explanation. Why didn't John just use that as the reason if that were the reality?

Instead his reasons are all over the place...this, that, and the other thing, and also this.... I mean, in a podcast he says he was concerned that people were having sex and doing drugs. There was no reason to bring up any of that.

You’ve heard his podcast? You’re seriously asking this question? Why is he “all over the place”? LOL!

[Kishkumen]

But it doesn't seem fair to tell someone they are free to apply for a position that doesn't exist.

You don’t know that no position would exist. You only know that the duties she had been carrying out before were ending.

[Kishkumen]

If JD had had any foresight (and when I say foresight, I mean common sense brains) he would have had that policy put in place before Rosebud set foot in the Open Stories Foundation for CYA purposes alone. But no. And here we are or more to the point, they are.

Of course, if he had had any foresight, he wouldn't have essentially welcomed her into the Open Stories Foundation to start with on even a volunteer basis. He failed to draw the line between his private and professional life from the get go. He failed to protect the Open Stories Foundation, himself, his family, Rosebud and her family by allowing her to cross the threshold from personal into professional spaces.

A visionary does not a manager make. Write that down.

Indeed. All true.

[Esme]

You don’t know that no position would exist. You only know that the duties she had been carrying out before were ending.

But John told her he wants to downsize, no more side projects. He wants to keep only the self-sustaining stuff like the podcasts.
What position could possibly exist for her? He doesn't want to add stuff at this point, he wants to cut.

[Kishkumen]

But John told her he wants to downsize, no more side projects. He wants to keep only the self-sustaining stuff like the podcasts.

What position could possibly exist for her? He doesn't want to add stuff at this point, he wants to cut.

Why don’t you contact Joanna Brooks and ask her? You don’t know for a fact that there would be nothing for her to do. Just because you assume there would be nothing does not mean you are right. You forget that John had resigned and had reapplied as an independent contractor. Joanna Brooks and other members of the board were empowered to make a position and fill it.

[Esme]

Telling people the conferences were financial losers is such and easy and understandable explanation. Why didn't John just use that as the reason if that were the reality?

Instead his reasons are all over the place...this, that, and the other thing, and also this.... I mean, in a podcast he says he was concerned that people were having sex and doing drugs. There was no reason to bring up any of that.

You’ve heard his podcast? You’re seriously asking this question? Why is he “all over the place”? LOL!

I'm looking into all of the different reasons he gave because I believe the primary reason he wanted to stop the conferences was to get Rosebud to go away. It was not primarily for business reasons.

Dr. Moore's given a good case for why the keeping the conferences were not a good/sustainable business choice. And that may be true that they weren't. But that's not what JD said at the time. At least that I can find.

I believe that he wanted Rosebud gone and all the other reasons he gave were to try and mask that--because he knows it looks bad and it is bad.

As I said before, I'm open that his reasons could be many and several could exist simultaneously. But I still think getting rid of Rosebud was the primary motivation.

[Esme]

Why don’t you contact Joanna Brooks and ask her? You don’t know for a fact that there would be nothing for her to do. Just because you assume there would be nothing does not mean you are right. You forget that John had resigned and had reapplied as an independent contractor. Joanna Brooks and other members of the board were empowered to make a position and fill it.

You're right that I don't know for sure. The board could have created something else for her.

I just don't see that it was likely and Rosebud knew that. Why would she want to resign and reapply to some unnamed and as yet uncreated position? She had no security the board would create anything for her, so of course she's reluctant to take that deal.

[Kishkumen]

I'm looking into all of the different reasons he gave because I believe the primary reason he wanted to stop the conferences was to get Rosebud to go away. It was not primarily for business reasons.

Dr. Moore's given a good case for why the keeping the conferences were not a good/sustainable business choice. And that may be true that they weren't. But that's not what JD said at the time. At least that I can find.

I believe that he wanted Rosebud gone and all the other reasons he gave were to try and mask that--because he knows it looks bad and it is bad.

As I said before, I'm open that his reasons could be many and several could exist simultaneously. But I still think getting rid of Rosebud was the primary motivation.

Some of his reasons make a good deal of sense to me. Having earned a PhD myself, I would be looking to simplify business operations as I tried to finish mine, if I had had a business. In my case, I got rid of cable tv and refused a church calling for the very first time. I think it is silly to look for the *real reason* because decision making processes of a complicated nature often don’t involve a single compelling consideration. His situation looks very complicated at that time.

[Kishkumen]

You're right that I don't know for sure. The board could have created something else for her.

I just don't see that it was likely and Rosebud knew that. Why would she want to resign and reapply to some unnamed and as yet uncreated position? She had no security the board would create anything for her, so of course she's reluctant to take that deal.

She may not have trusted it. She probably did not. And it probably chafed severely that JD did not do as she asked and join her in forcing Joanna to resign. Having come so close to getting her way, she is angry and frustrated to come out with so little. Why should she accept that, right? Yeah, it burns and feels so unfair. I would be furious were I in her shoes. It would take a while to get over it.