Maklelan - A romantic incentive

[_Sanctorian]

I was 20.

20 is not a lot different than being 17. In fact, I did a lot of stupid stuff at 20 that I would never do once I got into my 30's. Once I got into my 30's and realized that life has a lot of grey, I realized the church was not what it claimed. I could never have imagined the church was false at 20. Would you have joined in your 30's?

How did your family handle you joining the church? Have any family members followed you into the church?

Do you believe the narrative of the church as the one and only true church that can gain you access back to your heavenly father?

[_maklelan]

20 is not a lot different than being 17.

Well, when you know the first thing about my life you can tell me what kind of person I was at 20.

In fact, I did a lot of stupid stuff at 20 that I would never do once I got into my 30's. Once I got into my 30's and realized that life has a lot of grey, I realized the church was not what it claimed. I could never have imagined the church was false at 20. Would you have joined in your 30's?

I would be dead or in jail right now if I didn't join the Church, so I don't think I could speak to my state of mind in that alternate universe.

How did your family handle you joining the church? Have any family members followed you into the church?

My mother and my brother independently (of me and each other) joined in the years before my baptism, although I wasn't really aware of it. I got a lot of backlash from my dad and one of my brothers, and it has never really gone away completely. No one else in my family has joined since me.

Do you believe the narrative of the church as the one and only true church that can gain you access back to your heavenly father?

I believe it is the only one with the priesthood, but I don't make any unilateral soteriological claims about that.

[_CameronMO]

I would be dead or in jail right now if I didn't join the Church, so I don't think I could speak to my state of mind in that alternate universe.

Why do you say that? Just wondering.

[_maklelan]

Why do you say that? Just wondering.

I was deeply embedded in Dallas' drug culture at the time, with no real way out. My first attempt at college ended with me being kicked out. After an OD and narrowly avoiding jail, things were just getting worse.

[_CameronMO]

Why do you say that? Just wondering.

I was deeply embedded in Dallas' drug culture at the time, with no real way out. My first attempt at college ended with me being kicked out. After an OD and narrowly avoiding jail, things were just getting worse.

Thanks. Having known several people (clients, family members, etc.) with similar issues, and seeing them overcome their issues, I'm glad you made it out. Some of them say religion helped, some don't, so I was just wondering. Thanks for sharing.

[_Sanctorian]

20 is not a lot different than being 17.

Well, when you know the first thing about my life you can tell me what kind of person I was at 20.

In fact, I did a lot of stupid stuff at 20 that I would never do once I got into my 30's. Once I got into my 30's and realized that life has a lot of grey, I realized the church was not what it claimed. I could never have imagined the church was false at 20. Would you have joined in your 30's?

I would be dead or in jail right now if I didn't join the Church, so I don't think I could speak to my state of mind in that alternate universe.

How did your family handle you joining the church? Have any family members followed you into the church?

My mother and my brother independently (of me and each other) joined in the years before my baptism, although I wasn't really aware of it. I got a lot of backlash from my dad and one of my brothers, and it has never really gone away completely. No one else in my family has joined since me.

Do you believe the narrative of the church as the one and only true church that can gain you access back to your heavenly father?

I believe it is the only one with the priesthood, but I don't make any unilateral soteriological claims about that.

I can appreciate the church providing a safe haven during a time when you might have needed such structure. Lot's of convicts have stories about how they found Jesus at their low points. But, does that mean you have to devote the rest of your life, time, money, resources to Jesus? Or in your case, the church?

The reason I ask, I find a lot of members associate their dealings with God as the church. Meaning, God is the church. It's hard for some members to distinguish between the two. My wife really struggles with this. Her experience with God came at a time when she was at her low. Because she is a member of the church, she associated God's love for her because she was a member of the church instead of God loving her despite her membership in the church. Had she been a catholic or protestant or methodist, she would have assumed God loved her because of her membership in those churches and would have devoted all her time, talents and money to those organizations.

My point is this, can you accept that God loves you and when you were 20 he needed you to clean up your life. He therefore used the Mormon church to get you on a path he wanted you on for a time. Now that you have cleaned up your life, can you accept the possibility that God may no longer need you in the Mormon church? That maybe he loves you enough regardless of your continued membership. That your membership in the church now is your choice and not necessarily one God cares about? You are therefore giving your resources, time, talents and money to a church no longer because God wants you to, but because you assumed that God wanted you to at 20 and therefore he wants you to continue for the rest of your life.

When I realized I no longer needed the church to be my God, to be my conduit to deity, to tell me how my interactions with God needed to be, I realized I no longer needed to be a member. Sure, it served it's purpose for a time, but that time has come and gone. I can now use my time, talents, money and resources in other places outside of the church just fine. I no longer needed the church to be the middle man. I like it better that way.

[_maklelan]

I can appreciate the church providing a safe haven during a time when you might have needed such structure.

I'm sure you like think of it as being that simplistic.

Lot's of convicts have stories about how they found Jesus at their low points. But, does that mean you have to devote the rest of your life, time, money, resources to Jesus? Or in your case, the church?

The reason I ask, I find a lot of members associate their dealings with God as the church. Meaning, God is the church. It's hard for some members to distinguish between the two. My wife really struggles with this. Her experience with God came at a time when she was at her low. Because she is a member of the church, she associated God's love for her because she was a member of the church instead of God loving her despite her membership in the church. Had she been a catholic or protestant or methodist, she would have assumed God loved her because of her membership in those churches and would have devoted all her time, talents and money to those organizations.

We're back to you assuming it's as simple as me finding a lifeline in a time of trial.

My point is this, can you accept that God loves you and when you were 20 he needed you to clean up your life. He therefore used the Mormon church to get you on a path he wanted you on for a time. Now that you have cleaned up your life, can you accept the possibility that God may no longer need you in the Mormon church?

That's an interesting narrative, and perhaps it helps make meaning for your own experiences, but you're way off base when it comes to my relationship to God, to Jesus, and to the LDS Church.

That maybe he loves you enough regardless of your continued membership.

You act like this perspective and the LDS worldview are mutually exclusive. Latter-day Saints believe God loves all his children, baptized members or not.

That your membership in the church now is your choice and not necessarily one God cares about? You are therefore giving your resources, time, talents and money to a church no longer because God wants you to, but because you assumed that God wanted you to at 20 and therefore he wants you to continue for the rest of your life.

What leads you to believe my experiences from 14 years ago have anything at all to do with my decisions today?

When I realized I no longer needed the church to be my God, to be my conduit to deity, to tell me how my interactions with God needed to be, I realized I no longer needed to be a member. Sure, it served it's purpose for a time, but that time has come and gone. I can now use my time, talents, money and resources in other places outside of the church just fine. I no longer needed the church to be the middle man. I like it better that way.

Great. My experiences are different.

[_Sanctorian]

Great. My experiences are different.

Please, fill in the blanks. We now know what brought you into the church, what keeps you a member today?

[_maklelan]

We now know what brought you into the church

No you don't.

[_Sanctorian]

We now know what brought you into the church

No you don't.

Ok. Please share.