Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

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_huckelberry
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _huckelberry »

subgenius wrote:
huckelberry wrote: Considering judgment I was not thinking of a race while clearly you are. I do not think the point of life is seeing who can beat everybody else to Madrid. (or wherever you may be racing to). As I mentioned before I see the central things in life as a team effort to build something. In that picture I do not find a place for your worrying about who might unfairly impede another runner. If you are running why not arrange enough space to run well?

You ask how I see God making the race fair. I think the disparity of advantages people face are so great that I cannot imagine God that is making any effort at all to make the race fair. I do not think he is interested in a race.

Then why is there a judgment?


The judgement I recall Jesus speaking of was the one determining who gets cut from the team. People who betray the team and do not turn from that betrayal are removed. If there are special awards for piano playing or excellence of mathematical achievement they are not mentioned. That would not mean such things are not given respect and recognition. I can imagine all sorts of achievement receiving respect.Even being kind to people.
_huckelberry
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _huckelberry »

My comments skirted what is usually the issue first discussed about judgement, what sort of moral character a person has. The variety of people"s character would be the one thing that would incline my to wonder if there actually is a dimension of life prior to birth here. If we are something before birth it would be natural to Gods justice for that Character to be part of what we are when we are born here. That could be an advantage for some and a problem for others. It could help explain why there are people born to cultural and physical advantage who are of excellent character while other have bad character. The same is true of people born with disadvantage.

I think God cares about the absolute objective difference between good and bad character. I also believe that God is desirous of people moving from bad to good so celebrates when that movement happens even when there are people who have already developed to a place closer to the goal.
_bcuzbcuz
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

subgenius wrote:Then why is there a judgment?


Why not ask God and get back to us when he answers?
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_subgenius
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _subgenius »

bcuzbcuz wrote:
subgenius wrote:Then why is there a judgment?


Why not ask God and get back to us when he answers?


Image
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _subgenius »

huckelberry wrote:My comments skirted what is usually the issue first discussed about judgement, what sort of moral character a person has. The variety of people"s character would be the one thing that would incline my to wonder if there actually is a dimension of life prior to birth here. If we are something before birth it would be natural to Gods justice for that Character to be part of what we are when we are born here. That could be an advantage for some and a problem for others. It could help explain why there are people born to cultural and physical advantage who are of excellent character while other have bad character. The same is true of people born with disadvantage.

I think God cares about the absolute objective difference between good and bad character. I also believe that God is desirous of people moving from bad to good so celebrates when that movement happens even when there are people who have already developed to a place closer to the goal.

I agree with your well stated notions here.
I suppose I am trying to resolve either scenario.
1. If we are all born with equal character, then particular advantages or disadvantages acquired/lost along the journey would be mere products of circumstance - results from factors often, if not always, beyond one's influence...free will is necessarily nonexistent. This would seem to contradict Justice, wherein some acquire arbitrary burdens while others are given an unfair advantage..
2. If we are all born with varying character, which would accord with a pre-existence Divine Judgment, then particular advantages or disadvantages acquired/lost along the journey would be mere products of our perceptions of the circumstance...our decisions about the events that unfold before us, many of which may be the result of freely made decisions in our lives. But this does not account for the seemingly random drunk driver tragedy. Is it to easy for us to say tragedy befalls only those who had it coming anyway?

either scenario gets a little sticky

But if our character is transcendental, as you speculate above, then it stands to reason that we are being "refined" by experiences here...that this character must be susceptible to free will, because it would be possible to move from bad to good...to change. Such a transformation is a supernatural change, and perhaps merits the claim that our spirits are of a divine nature.
Nevertheless, the level of character one brought into this world is not meant for an unrighteous judgment by the rest of us, and certainly merits our compassion...demands, perhaps, a special consideration...like the ADA?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Mittens
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _Mittens »

http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... th-of.html

My blog with a few more quotes about this subject from Harold B Lee
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_subgenius
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _subgenius »

Mittens wrote:http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalmon.blogspot.com/2014/08/what-mormon-teach-about-birth-of.html

My blog with a few more quotes about this subject from Harold B Lee

You realize that the mark of Cain doctrine was not exclusive to the Mormon church right?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_moksha
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _moksha »

subgenius wrote:You realize that the mark of Cain doctrine was not exclusive to the Mormon church right?


Excellent point. The Curse of Cain was something cobbled together by some Protestant Ministers to justify and absolve the abomination of slavery. Imagine how ungodly it was for humans to bind and sell their fellow being for some gold shekels. It made a mockery of the gift of life God has given us.

Shame on us for going along with it and adding to it even more curse variations. No more excuses. It was terrible and thank goodness we are done with it.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_subgenius
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _subgenius »

moksha wrote:
subgenius wrote:You realize that the mark of Cain doctrine was not exclusive to the Mormon church right?


Excellent point. The Curse of Cain was something cobbled together by some Protestant Ministers to justify and absolve the abomination of slavery. Imagine how ungodly it was for humans to bind and sell their fellow being for some gold shekels. It made a mockery of the gift of life God has given us.

Shame on us for going along with it and adding to it even more curse variations. No more excuses. It was terrible and thank goodness we are done with it.

done with it?
...given that many believe morality to be purely a subjective endeavour...tomorrow is another day
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Mittens
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Re: Why humans are born handicapped and minorities

Post by _Mittens »

moksha wrote:
subgenius wrote:You realize that the mark of Cain doctrine was not exclusive to the Mormon church right?


Excellent point. The Curse of Cain was something cobbled together by some Protestant Ministers to justify and absolve the abomination of slavery. Imagine how ungodly it was for humans to bind and sell their fellow being for some gold shekels. It made a mockery of the gift of life God has given us.

Shame on us for going along with it and adding to it even more curse variations. No more excuses. It was terrible and thank goodness we are done with it.



I see it only in the Mormon Faith, could you give me references for Protestant Ministers :rolleyes:
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
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