John Dehlin Stake President update 8/23/14

[_Equality]

MS is a master of gaslighting. The histrionics comment is but one more example of it.

[Guest]

Rosebud,

If you have nothing better to do with your life, then by all means milk the innuendo/slander for as long as you can (or for as long as the moderators will allow). You can only play this game until you decide to reveal whatever information you claim to have. Once you do, I will respond (with facts/evidence), and the chips will fall. Then I wonder what histrionics you will pull afterwards. I'm sure you will think of something...but over time...folks will figure you out. They already are. In droves.

What a life you have made for yourself. I hope you are happy with the bed you've made. For us, life is better than ever.

All the best to you and yours.

This is abusive language. A couple people messaged me to let me know that mormonstories used the word "histrionics." I figured that was a good opportunity to come make a feminist argument as the word "histrionics" has traditionally been used to unjustly discredit women. I didn't expect to see all of this, though. Dang.

I'm not sure what to say besides that Mormons in general need to become more aware of what this kind of language signifies when it used to win arguments. More specifically, Mormons need to become cognizant of what it signifies when it is used by a person who is accustomed to having power. Power in the wrong hands is very dangerous.

Will people please contact me on Facebook if they see anything else I should respond to? There are lessons here for Mormons to learn about trust, media, fame, power, sexism, intimate parter violence, and verbal abuse. We need to stop tolerating this kind of treatment of women, children, lgbt and same-sex attracted people, and even the straight white males among us.

I am not afraid anymore mormonstories. You chose the wrong woman to mess with. I think you figured that out a long time ago, though. I was perplexed about what was going on until I read this post. I get it now; I can see.

I was thinking of you and some other people I have dealt with him my life when I wrote this Op-ed: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/57 ... n.html.csp
I think I hit the nail on the head.

You and the PR department have more in common than you know and I have a t.o.n. of experience dealing you all now. I will not go away and this kind of treatment of disempowered populations needs to stop. Mormonism has some terrible problems, but I have confidence in our ability as a people to overcome them. Perhaps this can be an object lesson.

Again, because I care about your children and because I feel very sorry for EDIT: Mxxxx (mormonstories' wife), I advise you to step away from the computer.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

let me give you one example of something that i do not expect the dude's here to really catch or care about.

Rosebud,

Then I wonder what histrionics you will pull afterwards. I'm sure you will think of something...but over time...folks will figure you out. They already are. In droves.

What a life you have made for yourself. I hope you are happy with the bed you've made.

I agree that was in very poor form. I know pretty much nothing of the history between the parties involved, but I can see how someone who does know the history could be very hurt by what he said. Obviously this thread got out of control between the three or four posters on this thread who know the history. It's sad it went on as many pages as it did. I'm sure that after everyone cools off, mormonstories would apologize for what he said above. I'd be the first to admit I know him very little, but he doesn't seem the type of guy to say something so hurtful when he's in control of his temper (In other words, we all say things in the 'heat of battle' that we later very much regret).

[_Meister_Monkey]

I wonder what histrionics you will pull afterwards. I'm sure you will think of something...but over time...folks will figure you out. They already are. In droves.

What a life you have made for yourself. I hope you are happy with the bed you've made. For us, life is better than ever.

Both nasty and abusive. Vindictive and toolish.

[_Mayan Elephant]

Obviously this thread got out of control between the three or four posters on this thread who know the history. It's sad it went on as many pages as it did.

i disagree and i do not see any evidence that it was out of control. it did cause some unnecessary work for shades to edit all the names. i tried to do my part to reduce that work. other than that, i do not see how it was out of control.

i do not see any need to fear discourse, even if it is emotional. i think that parts of the thread were overtly and purposefully hurtful, but we probably disagree on which parts fit that description. in the end, i think this thread will do more to open discourse than shut it down.

there seems to be an obsession with obsession on this thread. even that, i don't think is out of control. it is just part of the discourse, and one can take it or leave it or dive in and address it.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Obviously this thread got out of control between the three or four posters on this thread who know the history. It's sad it went on as many pages as it did.

i disagree and i do not see any evidence that it was out of control. it did cause some unnecessary work for shades to edit all the names. i tried to do my part to reduce that work. other than that, i do not see how it was out of control.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. Once I read Rosebud's post (which I quoted in a prior post on this thread), I thought the interactions between a few posters was out of control. Like I said previously, I've participated on this bb since the beginning, and in all that time I have never read a post like Rosebud's.

[master_dc]

Narcissists often use the following, written by a counselor who blogged what we are seeing all over this thread:

Control by Triangulation

If all else fails, the abuser recruits friends, colleagues, family members, the authorities, institutions, neighbours, any third party – to do his bidding. He uses them to cajole, coerce, threaten, stalk, offer retreat, tempt, convince, harass, communicate and otherwise manipulate his target. He controls these unaware instruments exactly as he plans to control his ultimate victim. He employs the same mechanisms and devices. And he always dumps, his props, unceremoniously when the job is done.

Another form of control by triangulation is to engineer situations in which abuse is inflicted upon another person. Such carefully crafted scenarios of embarrassment and humiliation provoke social sanctions (condemnation, opprobrium, social exclusion and shame) against the victim. In this instance, society becomes the instrument of the abuser. By clever seduction, through words and posturing, he entices his pawns to do his dirty work for him. Unaware, they exclude his victim, being persuaded by his rendition of truth, they take up his cause and his right and align themselves against the one he controls.

The malignant narcissist creates perpetual triangles around the one he desires to control. He sees through these eyes, eyes with no empathy, that perpetuates constant, residual torment, for his partner. Claiming that he is being tormented by his victim, he creates rescuers who then torment his victim, thinking they are protecting him from the "bully". Doing this through his friendships, family members, associates and whoever he can entice; he remotely views his operation, like a director of a movie. In other words, he will frame a picture and put his secondary supply in that frame,the borders always being the shape of a triangle and the picture within, being a distorted truth he propagates. Usually, the claims he makes of his victim are the truth of himself and while hiding behind his victim, he will spin doctor and gaslight until he gets his desired result. Defamation of character and destroying the credibility of the one he victimizes is his goal. He convinces his pawns that his victim is the persecutor and he is the victim. The naked eye cannot see this game of illusions and that is why he engages others into his web. They do for him what he orchestrates in secret.

[All edits to fix the color and bold within the quote above]

[_Rosebud]

Someone (sorry I'm not keeping track or fiddling with fixing the quotes) said:

"Obviously this thread got out of control between the three or four posters on this thread who know the history. It's sad it went on as many pages as it did. I'm sure that after everyone cools off, mormonstories would apologize for what he said above. I'd be the first to admit I know him very little, but he doesn't seem the type of guy to say something so hurtful when he's in control of his temper (In other words, we all say things in the 'heat of battle' that we later very much regret)."

No worries. I'm used to it now. I am not hurt anymore. Sometimes it takes a person a while to figure life out, but I feel very good about where I am right now. My skin fits, if that makes sense.

Mormonstories does not need to apologize and if you knew the history, you would know that any apology he can give on a message board at this point would be useless and would even be in poor taste. He has had hundreds of opportunities to improve his poor behavior and provide restitution. He has not taken those opportunities.

The history here is much larger than a message board fight and at this point, it includes several very powerful people, an exceptionally wealthy church, and thousands of donors and individuals who have been taken advantage of without their knowledge.

[_Tobin]

Hi Rosebud,

I'm sure you are aware of this, but I think it needs to be said. Many of the posters you are addressing on this board are vicious, mean-spirited little monsters that think it is great sport to attack and belittle others, especially Mormons and what they believe. That is primarily why they are here. I really hope you don't expect a reasonable response from many of them since they aren't capable of it.

Anyway, I wish you well and please continue to post here. It is nice to have you here.

Tobin

[_Stumpy Pepys]

Rosebud,

When JD, went through the whole "faith reconstruction" thing, it threw a lot of people for a loop. This is when he announced that the MormonStories Facebook group would be for podcast related discussion, and that another Facebook group (presumably mormonhub) would be for more general discussion, or something like that. This is all from memory of the announcements to the Facebook groups, so forgive me if I am getting the details mixed up. Without going into detail, that was pretty disruptive for a lot of people.

Anyway, you said this about the whole Facebook group kerfuffle:

Oh.... here's one really fun drama (of the MANY): That time he moved everybody from the MS podcast group into the new Facebook group that became The Mormon Hub..... ? It was because somebody finally convinced him that he couldn't exclude me from everything forever. Instead of adding me to the main group I had admin'd from 400 people up (and from which I had been banned from for several months) he moved EVERYBODY to a new group. EVERYBODY. Then, through a series of events, Sunstone became the owner of the new group. Sunstone was too afraid he might retaliate against them if they let me have anything to do with administrating the new group.

So, that was actually all about you?