The virgin birth of Christ.

[_Thorwald]

No person/minister who I have spoken with, understands the virgin birth of Christ. Let us consider the following;

1) Jesus is the only 'begotten' Son of God. The word 'begotten' is one tense of the verb 'begit/beget'. The past tense of this same verb, 'begat' is used in Genesis in the listing of the generations of man. We all know, that this referred to the impregnation of women with male sperm, in order for a new human being to be born. Did the Holy Ghost 'create' Jesus as Lord of Hosts, using the sperm of God, and this only took place once?

2) When we then consider Jesus 'taking on flesh', we have to deal with the following;

a) The physical appearance characteristics of Mary, had no effect on the physical appearance of the Son of Man. He remained in the 'express image' of His Father [The Lord God Almighty] and Himself, as Lord of Hosts ("If you see me, you see The Father."...Christ responding to Philip).

b) We also have to deal with this problem...At what time in the life of Christ, would Christ look exactly like Himself as Lord of Hosts, and therefore, also, look exactly like the Lord God Almighty? Remember, that head and facial hair continues to grow. We know that at the time of the Son of Man being on earth, most Jews wore beards. Did Christ actually have long hair and a beard, as seen in paintings/pictures created by man? I doubt this very much, but this is my own opinion.

c) Is it possible, that the Holy Ghost 'implanted' the Lord of Hosts in Mary, as an 'embryo/fetus', with the body of Mary simply providing the sustenance for life during the required gestation period until the Son of Man could be born? I think this is highly likely. It all makes sense.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[_Thorwald]

There is another 'item' that has to be considered;

Jesus Christ is our 'unblemished Lamb' sacrifice. He had to be born 'without sin'. Mary is like the rest of us..."All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Mary carried the sin of Adam and Eve (knowledge of good and evil), also. This is why I believe, that the body of Mary was simply used to 'feed' the carnal needs of Jesus as an unborn child/baby.

[_CameronMO]

Brigham Young, second prophet and president of the LDS church said,

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

Brigham Young also said, "Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

Brigham Young said, "When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218).

Joseph Fielding Smith, stated

"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit," (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44, as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1884, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110, bookstore at 1358 South West Temple, 1982, p. 260).

Joseph Fielding Smith said, "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 19).

Bruce McConkie, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy stated,

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547).

"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, . . . Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742).

Heber C. Kimball who was a member of the first presidency said,

"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211).

"The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband," (Deseret News, October 10, 1866, as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1854, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110, bookstore at 1350 South West Temple, 1982, p. 261).

http://carm.org/was-lds-jesus-born-of-virgin-mary

[_Thorwald]

Brigham Young, second prophet and president of the LDS church said,

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

Brigham Young also said, "Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

Brigham Young said, "When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218).

Joseph Fielding Smith, stated

"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit," (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44, as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1884, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110, bookstore at 1358 South West Temple, 1982, p. 260).

Joseph Fielding Smith said, "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 19).

Bruce McConkie, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy stated,

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547).

"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, . . . Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742).

Heber C. Kimball who was a member of the first presidency said,

"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211).

"The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband," (Deseret News, October 10, 1866, as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1854, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110, bookstore at 1350 South West Temple, 1982, p. 261).

http://carm.org/was-lds-jesus-born-of-virgin-mary

I don't believe a word of what you have posted, above. The Lord of Hosts was begotten before all other 'creations'. He simply, 'took on flesh'. He and the Lord God Almighty [GOD] created all other creations. For me to believe that His birth as Son of Man was 'equal' to our birth, is vanity. On earth, He was still the Lord of Hosts [spiritual], as well as Son of Man [carnal]. Even Jesus told His disciples, that He was looking forward to 'returning to the glory He had, before the world was' [Lord of Hosts...on the right hand of the Lord God Almighty]. For Jesus to have been born through impregnation of Mary, He would have to have been a totally 'new' figure. This DID NOT happen.

[_CameronMO]

I don't believe a word of what you have posted, above. The Lord of Hosts was begotten before all other 'creations'. He simply, 'took on flesh'. He and the Lord God Almighty [GOD] created all other creations. For me to believe that His birth as Son of Man was 'equal' to our birth, is vanity. On earth, He was still the Lord of Hosts [spiritual], as well as Son of Man [carnal]. Even Jesus told His disciples, that He was looking forward to 'returning to the glory He had, before the world was' [Lord of Hosts...on the right hand of the Lord God Almighty]. For Jesus to have been born through impregnation of Mary, He would have to have been a totally 'new' figure. This DID NOT happen.

It's completely true. Prophets of God spoke it. The Spirit told me it was true through my bosom burning, witnessing to me that the prophets spoke the truth. I cannot deny it.

It's a lot easier to understand once you know that God the Father is Adam.

[_Thorwald]

I don't believe a word of what you have posted, above. The Lord of Hosts was begotten before all other 'creations'. He simply, 'took on flesh'. He and the Lord God Almighty [GOD] created all other creations. For me to believe that His birth as Son of Man was 'equal' to our birth, is vanity. On earth, He was still the Lord of Hosts [spiritual], as well as Son of Man [carnal]. Even Jesus told His disciples, that He was looking forward to 'returning to the glory He had, before the world was' [Lord of Hosts...on the right hand of the Lord God Almighty]. For Jesus to have been born through impregnation of Mary, He would have to have been a totally 'new' figure. This DID NOT happen.

It's completely true. Prophets of God spoke it. The Spirit told me it was true through my bosom burning, witnessing to me that the prophets spoke the truth. I cannot deny it.

It's a lot easier to understand once you know that God the Father is Adam.

Please supply me with the KJV Bible scripture to support what you have posted. You see, I personally experienced Numbers 12:6, in the spring of 2003, and much more. I spent the next nine years in internet research, visiting MANY churches of 'one God' faiths, communicating with ministers through emails, discussing/debating on many Christian forums, deep prayer, and so on. I wrote a small book ("Black Lights & Burnt Candles", published by WestBow Press in February, 2013) in which I summarized my experiences. Everything in the book is true.

[_Bazooka]

c) Is it possible, that the Holy Ghost 'implanted' the Lord of Hosts in Mary, as an 'embryo/fetus', with the body of Mary simply providing the sustenance for life during the required gestation period until the Son of Man could be born? I think this is highly likely. It all makes sense.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah...because a supernatural 'ghost' getting a human female pregnant is 'highly likely' and 'all makes sense'......

[_Thorwald]

c) Is it possible, that the Holy Ghost 'implanted' the Lord of Hosts in Mary, as an 'embryo/fetus', with the body of Mary simply providing the sustenance for life during the required gestation period until the Son of Man could be born? I think this is highly likely. It all makes sense.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah...because a supernatural 'ghost' getting a human female pregnant is 'highly likely' and 'all makes sense'......

I don't understand your post (above). Do you believe in the Bible, or not? If you don't, then why bother posting anything? If you do, then explain what you posted. Thank you.

[_SteelHead]

What does believing in the Bible have to do with anything? Can non believers not be involved in the discussion?

[_Quasimodo]

I don't understand your post (above). Do you believe in the Bible, or not? If you don't, then why bother posting anything? If you do, then explain what you posted. Thank you.

This is a discussion board (hence the name). Anything you post is up for discussion (if it's interesting enough). I like it that way. We all get to voice our opinions of your thoughts and put it up to scrutiny.

If you thought that only those that believed the way you do would respond, you might be on the wrong board.

Speaking of that, what if the story of the virgin birth is not true?

Edited to add:

Sorry, Thorwald, I forgot my manners.

Welcome to the board! I don't know how happy you will be here, but your opinions are more than welcomed. Just not immediately accepted without some discussion.