LittleNipper wrote:He got rid of the pagan altars and shrines, smashed sacred pillars, and chopped down the sex groves.
What is a "sex grove?"
Bible verse by verse
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_Dr. Shades
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Re: Bible verse by verse
What is a "sex grove?"
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
--Louis Midgley
--Louis Midgley
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
A sex grove is where pagans go to worship through ritual sexual relations with prostitutes. Those vestal virgins were not so very....Dr. Shades wrote:LittleNipper wrote:He got rid of the pagan altars and shrines, smashed sacred pillars, and chopped down the sex groves.
What is a "sex grove?"
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_ludwigm
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Re: Bible verse by verse
LittleNipper wrote:He got rid of the pagan altars and shrines, smashed sacred pillars, and chopped down the sex groves.
Dr. Shades wrote:What is a "sex grove?"
LittleNipper wrote: A sex grove is where pagans go to worship through ritual sexual relations with prostitutes.
Ahh... that ole' gold times...
by the way
They were not pagans. They were true believers. They simply believed in different gods than your one.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
ludwigm wrote:LittleNipper wrote:He got rid of the pagan altars and shrines, smashed sacred pillars, and chopped down the sex groves.Dr. Shades wrote:What is a "sex grove?"LittleNipper wrote: A sex grove is where pagans go to worship through ritual sexual relations with prostitutes.
Ahh... that ole' gold times...
by the way
They were not pagans. They were true believers. They simply believed in different gods than your one.
They worshipped gods that looked and acted much like themselves ---- creating gods in their image ---- worshipping stone or wood
Deuteronomy 4:28
27"The LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the LORD drives you. 28"There you will serve gods, the work of man's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29"But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.…
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_ludwigm
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Re: Bible verse by verse
Like you...LittleNipper wrote:They worshipped gods that looked and acted much like themselves ---- creating gods in their image ----
worshipping text written by savagesLittleNipper wrote: worshipping stone or wood
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
ludwigm wrote:Like you...LittleNipper wrote:They worshipped gods that looked and acted much like themselves ---- creating gods in their image ----worshipping text written by savagesLittleNipper wrote: worshipping stone or wood
God is a lot more understanding than I. And one would have to be very unread to even imagine the Bible as the work of savages. However, if it is, so much more the proof that it was divinely inspired.
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse
2 Chronicles 15:1-19
Azariah son of Obed, was moved by the Spirit of God to meet Asa. Azariah told Asa to listen carefully to what he had to say and also to Judah and Benjamin. God will stick with Asa as long as Asa sticks to God. Look for God and He will let himself be found; but leave him he’ll go away. For a long while Israel didn’t have the real God, nor did they have the direction of a priest or teacher or the written Law of God. But when in trouble and Israel took matters seriously ---- deciding to seek the true God --- God let himself be found. At times it was a dog-eat-dog world. Life was up for grabs—no one, regardless of country, knew what tomorrow might bring. Nation attacked nation, city battered city. God let loose every kind of trouble among them. But for Asa things will differ. Asa must be strong. Take heart. Reward for diligence is coming...
Asa accepted the prophecy of Azariah son of Obed, and went to work: He cleaned out the obscene and polluting sacred shrines from the whole country of Judah and Benjamin and from the towns he had taken in the hill country of Ephraim. He spruced up the Altar of God that was in front of The Temple porch. Then he called an assembly for all Judah and Benjamin, including those from Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon who were living there during this time (for many departed from Israel ---- leaving home to joined forces with Asa when they saw that God was on his side).
They all arrived in Jerusalem in the 3rd month of the 15th year of Asa’s reign for a great worship meeting. From their earlier plunder they offered sacrifices of 700 oxen and 7000 sheep. Then they bound themselves in a covenant to look for God, wholeheartedly, holding nothing back. And they agreed that anyone who refusing to look for God should be killed, no matter who it was, young or old, man or woman. They all shouted out their promise to God, a joyful sound accompanied with blasts from trumpets and rams’ horns. The whole country felt good about the covenant promise—they had given their promise joyfully from the heart. Anticipating the best, they had sought God—and He arrived, ready to be found. God provided peace inwardly and throughout—providing a peaceful kingdom.
Asa went so far as to remove his mother, Queen Maacah, from her throne because she had built a shockingly obscene sexual image. Asa tore it down, smashed it, and burned it up in the Kidron Valley. Unfortunately he didn’t get rid of the local sex-and-religion shrines. However, he was well-intentioned, and loyal towards God. All the gold and silver vessels and artifacts that he and his father had consecrated for holy use he placed in The Temple of God. There wasn’t a bit of war for 35 years of Asa’s reign.
[It would seem that one proof of God is that as a nation or person turns towards Him, that person or nation triumphs over pestilence, ramped crime, sneak attacks and the like. However, as a person or nation turns away from God and towards vain pursuits, there comes severe trouble. I believe we are seeing this with approaching epidemics, random shootings, and sneak attacks. People are beginning to live in constant fear of what tomorrow will bring --- as good is labeled intolerance and evil is labeled freedom.]
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And upon Azariah son of Oded hath been the Spirit of God,
2 and he goeth out before Asa, and saith to him, `Hear, me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; Jehovah [is] with you -- in your being with Him, and if ye seek Him, He is found of you, and if ye forsake Him, He forsaketh you;
3 and many days [are] to Israel without a true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law,
4 and it turneth back in its distress unto Jehovah, God of Israel, and they seek Him, and He is found of them,
5 and in those times there is no peace to him who is going out, and to him who is coming in, for many troubles [are] on all the inhabitants of the lands,
6 and they have been beaten down, nation by nation, and city by city, for God hath troubled them with every adversity;
7 and ye, be ye strong, and let not your hands be feeble, for there is a reward for your work.'
8 And at Asa's hearing these words, and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he hath strengthened himself, and doth cause the abominations to pass away out of all the land of Judah and Benjamin, and out of the cities that he hath captured from the hill-country of Ephraim, and reneweth the altar of Jehovah that [is] before the porch of Jehovah,
9 and gathereth all Judah and Benjamin, and the sojourners with them out of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and out of Simeon -- for they have fallen unto him from Israel in abundance, in their seeing that Jehovah his God [is] with him.
10 And they are gathered to Jerusalem in the third month of the fifteenth year of the reign of Asa,
11 and sacrifice to Jehovah on that day from the spoil they have brought in -- oxen seven hundred, and sheep seven thousand,
12 and they enter into a covenant to seek Jehovah, God of their fathers, with all their heart, and with all their soul,
13 and every one who doth not seek for Jehovah, God of Israel, is put to death, from small unto great, from man unto woman.
14 And they swear to Jehovah with a loud voice, and with shouting, and with trumpets, and with cornets,
15 and rejoice do all Judah concerning the oath, for with all their heart they have sworn, and with all their good-will they have sought Him, and He is found of them, and Jehovah giveth rest to them round about.
16 And also Maachah, mother of Asa the king -- he hath removed her from [being] mistress, in that she hath made for a shrine a horrible thing, and Asa cutteth down her horrible thing, and beateth [it] small, and burneth [it] by the brook Kidron:
17 yet the high places have not turned aside from Israel; only, the heart of Asa hath been perfect all his days.
18 And he bringeth in the sanctified things of his father, and his own sanctified things, to the house of God, silver, and gold, and vessels.
19 And war hath not been till the thirty and fifth year of the reign of Asa.
Azariah son of Obed, was moved by the Spirit of God to meet Asa. Azariah told Asa to listen carefully to what he had to say and also to Judah and Benjamin. God will stick with Asa as long as Asa sticks to God. Look for God and He will let himself be found; but leave him he’ll go away. For a long while Israel didn’t have the real God, nor did they have the direction of a priest or teacher or the written Law of God. But when in trouble and Israel took matters seriously ---- deciding to seek the true God --- God let himself be found. At times it was a dog-eat-dog world. Life was up for grabs—no one, regardless of country, knew what tomorrow might bring. Nation attacked nation, city battered city. God let loose every kind of trouble among them. But for Asa things will differ. Asa must be strong. Take heart. Reward for diligence is coming...
Asa accepted the prophecy of Azariah son of Obed, and went to work: He cleaned out the obscene and polluting sacred shrines from the whole country of Judah and Benjamin and from the towns he had taken in the hill country of Ephraim. He spruced up the Altar of God that was in front of The Temple porch. Then he called an assembly for all Judah and Benjamin, including those from Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon who were living there during this time (for many departed from Israel ---- leaving home to joined forces with Asa when they saw that God was on his side).
They all arrived in Jerusalem in the 3rd month of the 15th year of Asa’s reign for a great worship meeting. From their earlier plunder they offered sacrifices of 700 oxen and 7000 sheep. Then they bound themselves in a covenant to look for God, wholeheartedly, holding nothing back. And they agreed that anyone who refusing to look for God should be killed, no matter who it was, young or old, man or woman. They all shouted out their promise to God, a joyful sound accompanied with blasts from trumpets and rams’ horns. The whole country felt good about the covenant promise—they had given their promise joyfully from the heart. Anticipating the best, they had sought God—and He arrived, ready to be found. God provided peace inwardly and throughout—providing a peaceful kingdom.
Asa went so far as to remove his mother, Queen Maacah, from her throne because she had built a shockingly obscene sexual image. Asa tore it down, smashed it, and burned it up in the Kidron Valley. Unfortunately he didn’t get rid of the local sex-and-religion shrines. However, he was well-intentioned, and loyal towards God. All the gold and silver vessels and artifacts that he and his father had consecrated for holy use he placed in The Temple of God. There wasn’t a bit of war for 35 years of Asa’s reign.
[It would seem that one proof of God is that as a nation or person turns towards Him, that person or nation triumphs over pestilence, ramped crime, sneak attacks and the like. However, as a person or nation turns away from God and towards vain pursuits, there comes severe trouble. I believe we are seeing this with approaching epidemics, random shootings, and sneak attacks. People are beginning to live in constant fear of what tomorrow will bring --- as good is labeled intolerance and evil is labeled freedom.]
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And upon Azariah son of Oded hath been the Spirit of God,
2 and he goeth out before Asa, and saith to him, `Hear, me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; Jehovah [is] with you -- in your being with Him, and if ye seek Him, He is found of you, and if ye forsake Him, He forsaketh you;
3 and many days [are] to Israel without a true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law,
4 and it turneth back in its distress unto Jehovah, God of Israel, and they seek Him, and He is found of them,
5 and in those times there is no peace to him who is going out, and to him who is coming in, for many troubles [are] on all the inhabitants of the lands,
6 and they have been beaten down, nation by nation, and city by city, for God hath troubled them with every adversity;
7 and ye, be ye strong, and let not your hands be feeble, for there is a reward for your work.'
8 And at Asa's hearing these words, and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he hath strengthened himself, and doth cause the abominations to pass away out of all the land of Judah and Benjamin, and out of the cities that he hath captured from the hill-country of Ephraim, and reneweth the altar of Jehovah that [is] before the porch of Jehovah,
9 and gathereth all Judah and Benjamin, and the sojourners with them out of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and out of Simeon -- for they have fallen unto him from Israel in abundance, in their seeing that Jehovah his God [is] with him.
10 And they are gathered to Jerusalem in the third month of the fifteenth year of the reign of Asa,
11 and sacrifice to Jehovah on that day from the spoil they have brought in -- oxen seven hundred, and sheep seven thousand,
12 and they enter into a covenant to seek Jehovah, God of their fathers, with all their heart, and with all their soul,
13 and every one who doth not seek for Jehovah, God of Israel, is put to death, from small unto great, from man unto woman.
14 And they swear to Jehovah with a loud voice, and with shouting, and with trumpets, and with cornets,
15 and rejoice do all Judah concerning the oath, for with all their heart they have sworn, and with all their good-will they have sought Him, and He is found of them, and Jehovah giveth rest to them round about.
16 And also Maachah, mother of Asa the king -- he hath removed her from [being] mistress, in that she hath made for a shrine a horrible thing, and Asa cutteth down her horrible thing, and beateth [it] small, and burneth [it] by the brook Kidron:
17 yet the high places have not turned aside from Israel; only, the heart of Asa hath been perfect all his days.
18 And he bringeth in the sanctified things of his father, and his own sanctified things, to the house of God, silver, and gold, and vessels.
19 And war hath not been till the thirty and fifth year of the reign of Asa.
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_maklelan
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Re: Bible verse by verse
LittleNipper wrote:A sex grove is where pagans go to worship through ritual sexual relations with prostitutes. Those vestal virgins were not so very....
Ha, ha! The word there is just "asherahs," which refers to poles used for worship of Asherah. This was not a sexual cult, but it's sure not surprising to see fundies try to represent it as one to make it sound more disgusting. Asherah was YHWH's wife throughout the first temple period and no one had a problem with it. It wasn't until the Deuteronomist that people (priests whose income depended on it) started getting upset about attention being pointed elsewhere.
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_maklelan
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Re: Bible verse by verse
LittleNipper wrote:They worshipped gods that looked and acted much like themselves ---- creating gods in their image ---- worshipping stone or wood
Deuteronomy 4:28
27"The LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the LORD drives you. 28"There you will serve gods, the work of man's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29"But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.…
All the patriarchs set up stelae to worship God, and here's a picture of the incense altars and stelae set up in the holy of holies in the temple of Arad, which was administered by Hezekiah, representing YHWH and his wife:
Nobody cared about using stones and wood to worship YHWH until the time of the Deuteronomistic authors.
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_huckelberry
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Re: Bible verse by verse
Maklelan, can I ask if you would take a look at the beginning of the thread on the trinity which makes an observation about Isaiah 44:6 which strikes me as ambiguous and uncertain. I cannot help but wonder if your knowledge of Hebrew and the Hebrew text offers any clarification. Is the appearance of two personages a Christian projection of the trinity upon a statement listing Gods two roles or two names or is it more likely two persons are in view?