The virgin birth of Christ.

[_Thorwald]

ludwigm:

You evidently do not believe in what I have posted. You have made your point. Let it be. I am not interested in your trashy comments. Believe or not believe as you will. I know the truth as God has taught me. You are NOT my God, and neither am I, yours. Deal with the scriptures I have provided. If you have a different 'understanding' of these scriptures, then post them. I prefer intelligent discussions referenced to the scriptures. Telling me over and over in an insulting manner, that you do not believe what I have posted, is useless. Tell me what you DO believe the scriptures are telling us (without changing the scriptures to make your comments fit your beliefs). Thank you.

[_huckelberry]

That said, it looks like many of the biblical points you have been pondering are the same ones that inspired Joseph Smith the founder of our (ex)faith. And you seem to be on a similar track to him (except for the coffee). As you noted, I, at least, cannot engage you about your interpretation of biblical passages as I believe the Bible was written by a series of human beings, many of whom were actively engaged in mitigating or correcting the writing of previous authors of scripture. Many of the books in the Bible were written by authors claiming to be someone they were not, large swathes are retellings of Canaanite or Mesopotamian myths, and the New Testament in particular is chocker full of corrections and interpolations by later editors. That is why there are so many different ways to interpret biblical "messages".

Spanner, I can see a point to your observations but they seem exaggurated and perhaps overshoot the question to my understanding. I was not sure if my thought was relavant to the thread but the thread would not be harmed by an other individual who believes in God and the Bible.

I doubt that interpolations contribute much of anything to uncertainity about the Trinity. Simpler matters account for quite well. The doctrine had not yet developed in the first century. People were considering the significance of Jesus and the Atonement and their thoughts were on a path that later church leaders followed to form the doctrine.

In the old testament no clear understanding of messiah and atonement existed. Hints are just that, inexact.

I did find myself puzzled over the phrase great swathes are retelling Canaanite myths. Odd, I can think of a couple of Psalms, a flood and am not sure what else. You reference the occasional appearance of reference to ideas related to the family of gods. I get the impression that people then were still in a process of figuring out how much was or was not shared with that general cultural concept. (El and the sons of El)

I realize that I can understand how these ambiguities could lead to alternative speculations about God. I do not see how such alternatives would have a Christian meaning unless they clarified Jesus atonement and our participation in the new life.

[_Thorwald]

We are all fighting the 'battle' for the TRUTH. We ALL want to know what is true. When we start with the KJV Bible, and see what 'Christianity' has become, it leaves us in 'awe'. Every denomination believes they are teaching the truth, and others are teaching errors. Where does this leave us?

The only way to FIND the truth, is to ASK GOD. This is what I have done. The problem is, no one wants the truth, because it means, that they will become aware of the errors in their own faith/beliefs, and teachings to others. Everyone of every faith, is guilty of this.

We have been led astray, by attending church, and believing all that our minister(s) have taught us. We have become lazy [not reading the Bible on our own, and seeking the truth from God]. The only 'ministers' of God's Word that our society accepts, are those who have attained some sort of diploma/degree in theology, from a 'recognized' educational institution. Have we forgotten who Christ chose as His disciples? He chose them from the 'unlearned' [those who were not corrupted by false teachings, and had not become talebearers of the same].

When I attended various 'Christian' churches, I was amazed by the lack of knowledge of the scriptures by the congregation. There were only a few who would meet for Bible discussions, and these few, were being led by ministers/preachers, who were as 'blind' as they were [the blind leading the blind, and as it is written, both will fall in the ditch].

We have only this ONE opportunity on earth [our carnal life], in order to achieve salvation. Why would we leave our salvation in ANY human's hands. We should ALL be in great FEAR of losing our salvation. If we go to God in prayer, and seek wisdom from Him, HE WILL ANSWER US. We must take the initiative [the first step]. We must be willing to follow God, and GLORIFY Him. It is written, that He is a JEALOUS GOD. Don't be fooled by any mere human. Even the prophets only 'know in part'. God is the source of ALL wisdom. Man is not.

[_Bazooka]

What I am basically telling everyone, is, "Compare what others are telling you, to the KJV Bible scriptures, and then go to God in prayer, in the right 'frame of mind', asking Him to 'verify' that what you have been taught/told, as to whether it is true or false." Do not assume anything. We ALL have just one carnal life, which is our 'boot camp'. During our time on earth, we must decide whether or not we will follow God or Satan. EVERYONE will be measured against The Word, and The Word is God. NEVER allow your only chance for salvation to be dependant on the teachings of another. VERIFY the truth of what you read/hear, by asking God in prayer. Failure to do so, leaves you with no 'excuse' on judgement day. If you don't care what happens to you, why should God?????

Wait, you've told us not to listen to anyone other than God, so why are you now trying to tell us stuff?

If God cares what happens to us, why would He tell you to talk to us, instead of talking to us directly?

[_Thorwald]

What I am basically telling everyone, is, "Compare what others are telling you, to the KJV Bible scriptures, and then go to God in prayer, in the right 'frame of mind', asking Him to 'verify' that what you have been taught/told, as to whether it is true or false." Do not assume anything. We ALL have just one carnal life, which is our 'boot camp'. During our time on earth, we must decide whether or not we will follow God or Satan. EVERYONE will be measured against The Word, and The Word is God. NEVER allow your only chance for salvation to be dependant on the teachings of another. VERIFY the truth of what you read/hear, by asking God in prayer. Failure to do so, leaves you with no 'excuse' on judgement day. If you don't care what happens to you, why should God?????

Wait, you've told us not to listen to anyone other than God, so why are you now trying to tell us stuff?

If God cares what happens to us, why would He tell you to talk to us, instead of talking to us directly?

I am telling you to seek verification of what someone else teaches you, from God, Himself. This includes what I have written. God chooses to anoint who He pleases. Everyone has sinned and come short of the glory of God. He did NOT choose me, because I am without sin. You will have to ask God, yourself, why He did not choose you, or someone else. He is the only one who can answer your question.

[_Bazooka]

I did. God says you are lying. Now what?

[_ludwigm]

I did. God says you are lying. Now what?

I talked with god, too.

He (at least that dream showed me a male type --- females with beard are rare) has said:
- I should not share his (?) words with others --- with some exceptions written below:
- I should not believe others who are trying to talk in his (?) name. Thorwald and Nightlion... sorry, pals, his (?) wide definition included you, and a lot of self-appointed guys as Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Sun Myung Moon and especially L. Ron Hubbard. --- Sorry again, I am citing god's words as he (?) revealed...
- I should not recruit. (The commandment I most like. MY god knows my heart...)

[_Thorwald]

ludwigm:

Yes, God knows your heart, and thanks to your postings, so does everyone else who reads your posts.

[_just me]

We are all fighting the 'battle' for the TRUTH. We ALL want to know what is true. When we start with the KJV Bible, and see what 'Christianity' has become, it leaves us in 'awe'. Every denomination believes they are teaching the truth, and others are teaching errors. Where does this leave us?

In the dark.

The only way to FIND the truth, is to ASK GOD. This is what I have done. The problem is, no one wants the truth, because it means, that they will become aware of the errors in their own faith/beliefs, and teachings to others. Everyone of every faith, is guilty of this.

No, you are not the only one who has done this. You are wrong that "no one wants the truth." Pretty much everyone goes through a truthseeking phase in life. The actual problem is that everyone comes out with different answers. Then, people like you get all puffed up in arrogance thinking that you got the only right answer and you are the only true truthseeker and that you are better than everyone else.

We have been led astray, by attending church, and believing all that our minister(s) have taught us. We have become lazy [not reading the Bible on our own, and seeking the truth from God]. The only 'ministers' of God's Word that our society accepts, are those who have attained some sort of diploma/degree in theology, from a 'recognized' educational institution. Have we forgotten who Christ chose as His disciples? He chose them from the 'unlearned' [those who were not corrupted by false teachings, and had not become talebearers of the same].

Speaking of not reading the Bible ourselves, you do realize that that has only been an option for a teenie tiny portion of the human population, right? Out of the teenie tiny portion that it has been an option very few actually take the opportunity to do it. If the information contained in the Bible is critical to human salvation then god chose a really bad way of conveying that information.

When I attended various 'Christian' churches, I was amazed by the lack of knowledge of the scriptures by the congregation. There were only a few who would meet for Bible discussions, and these few, were being led by ministers/preachers, who were as 'blind' as they were [the blind leading the blind, and as it is written, both will fall in the ditch].

We have only this ONE opportunity on earth [our carnal life], in order to achieve salvation. Why would we leave our salvation in ANY human's hands. We should ALL be in great FEAR of losing our salvation. If we go to God in prayer, and seek wisdom from Him, HE WILL ANSWER US. We must take the initiative [the first step]. We must be willing to follow God, and GLORIFY Him. It is written, that He is a JEALOUS GOD. Don't be fooled by any mere human. Even the prophets only 'know in part'. God is the source of ALL wisdom. Man is not.

You are right about one thing. We only have one life to live. Don't waste it chasing shadows. Be healthy. Be happy. Embrace each day.

No one should waste their life following the words of a tiny little clique of nomads in a small section of the planet that lived thousands of years ago in an age where the average life span was about 30 years.

[_Bazooka]

I did. God says you are lying. Now what?

Bumping for Thorwald