The virgin birth of Christ.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

The Erotic Apologist:

Evidently, you have no God in you. Responding to your 'godless' postings benefits no one. I will not respond to any of your postings any longer. They are nothing more than garbage.

What's up with Christians today? In ancient times, Christians were happy to suffer martyrdom, proclaiming their faith with their dying breaths. But today's Christians get all butt-hurt and start to whine at the first sign of opposition. What's up with that, Thorwald?

[_Thorwald]

The Erotic Apologist:

Evidently, you have no God in you. Responding to your 'godless' postings benefits no one. I will not respond to any of your postings any longer. They are nothing more than garbage.

What's up with Christians today? In ancient times, Christians were happy to suffer martyrdom, proclaiming their faith with their dying breaths. But today's Christians get all butt-hurt and start to whine at the first sign of opposition. What's up with that, Thorwald?

It has nothing to do with opposition. It has everything to do with obeying God's commands. I have to separate myself from the ungodly, wipe my feet, and walk away. That is what I am doing.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

It has nothing to do with opposition. It has everything to do with obeying God's commands.

I find that very odd, since most Christians consider anti-Semitism and Nazism to be in direct opposition to God's commands.

I have to separate myself from the ungodly, wipe my feet, and walk away. That is what I am doing.

That's nice. Let me know how that works out for you.

[_Bazooka]

It has nothing to do with opposition. It has everything to do with obeying God's commands. I have to separate myself from the ungodly, wipe my feet, and walk away. That is what I am doing.

On behalf of The Ungodly, I reluctantly accept your proffered surrender.
God speed.

[Guest]

To condemn anyone to an eternity of endless, excruciating torture merely for honest lack of faith or belief (or for any other reason, for that matter) would make the Christian God a worse and crueler villain and monster than even the worst tyrants and mass murderers in all of human history. I simply cannot believe in, much less worship and honor such a despicable monster. That the God Mormons worship does not do that is a strong point in his favor, compared to the God typical Christians believe in.

If you step out of a plane flying 12000 feet above the earth without a parachute, you will likely die. Do you blame the parachute or the plane for this fact? Man turned away from God. God didn't turn away from man. God has provided the parachute; however, some refuse to wear it and simply jump out of the plane. That sounds like pride. The god of the Mormon is a man made designer god that fits his own values.

That is an incredibly poor analogy! If I foolishly step out of a plane and fall to my death, my death is not the result of anyone deliberately trying to punish me for stepping out of the plane.

[Guest]

Again, we are told in the scriptures, that God is a jealous God. Either we worship and glorify Him, or face eternal punishment. It is as simple as that. We must both fear and love God. We have no other alternative. Those who obey Him, will be rewarded. Those who do not will be separated from Him, for ever.

I'm sorry, but that makes not the slightest bit of sense to me. Why would a perfect, omnipotent and self sufficient being require anyone to worship him? Extreme narcissism like that is an extreme character flaw, as far as I am concerned, that belies any claim of God's supposed perfection and infallibility. The threat of eternal damnation for anyone who honestly doubts the existence of God was originally nothing but an invention of religious charlatans used to intimidate and terrorize the gullible into following and supporting them.

Mind you, it is not really God per se that I am criticizing or judging, it is the religious charlatans who make up this nonsense about God in order to take unfair advantage of the fearful and gullible.

Theists who behave themselves and deal honestly and charitably with their fellow beings, or believe religious doctrine out of fear of eternal punishment in the afterlife don't really deserve any reward or admiration. Those who figure out on their own that it is better to treat others as they would like to be treated, despite lacking any belief in God or any expectation of reward or punishment in the hereafter, are far more admirable and deserving of reward.

And I still say that condemning anyone to eternal punishment merely for sincere lack of belief or faith in God (whether there is such a being or not) is far, far more evil and wicked than anything that humans have ever done or could even be theoretically capable of doing!

[_Gunnar]

He really does sound like a Mormon.

If you were referring to me by that remark, it is true that I was raised a Mormon. I haven't bothered to formally resign my membership, so, I guess one could argue that I still am one. Aside from the fact that the Mormon God is not quite as cruelly vicious as the God typical Christians believe in, I don't see any more compelling justification for believing in him than in most (if any) other God concepts.

[_just me]

He really does sound like a Mormon.

If you were referring to me by that remark, it is true that I was raised a Mormon. I haven't bothered to formally resign my membership, so, I guess one could argue that I still am one. Aside from the fact that the Mormon God is not quite as cruelly vicious as the God typical Christians believe in, I don't see any more compelling justification for believing in him than in most (if any) other God concepts.

No, I think Thorwald sounds like he is reinventing Mormonism. Some of the things he says.

[_Gunnar]

He really does sound like a Mormon.

If you were referring to me by that remark, it is true that I was raised a Mormon. I haven't bothered to formally resign my membership, so, I guess one could argue that I still am one. Aside from the fact that the Mormon God is not quite as cruelly vicious as the God typical Christians believe in, I don't see any more compelling justification for believing in him than in most (if any) other God concepts.

No, I think Thorwald sounds like he is reinventing Mormonism. Some of the things he says.

Thanks for the clarification. I can see what you mean by that.

[_huckelberry]

I can see how in some way Thorwald sounds like he is recreating Mormonism. I think however that compared to the opening post of this thread the Mormon understanding of Jesus, his incarnation, our relationship to Jesus and thus the importance of atonement are much closer to orthodox.

"Mary contributed only sustenance" I am sorry I find that plain ugly. Perhaps a person could build some sort of path back from that heresy to an understanding of atonement. I am not interested in trying to tread it.