problems with God

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_canpakes
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Re: problems with God

Post by _canpakes »

Amore wrote:Your problem is not with God (Love/Objective truth).
It's with a particular herd mentality.


Amore, can you expand on - with specificity - both (1) the particular 'herd mentality' that you believe that AKA_ME is afflicted with, and (2) how it is affecting his/her conclusions?
_Zadok
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Re: problems with God

Post by _Zadok »

<whisper to person sitting next to me> "What does CFR mean?"

Code of Federal Regulations?
Cost and Freight combined?
Cute Fetching Republicans?
Cause for Repentance?
A friendship that requires agreement in all things, is not worthy of the term friendship.
_Amore
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Re: problems with God

Post by _Amore »

DrW wrote:Amore,

Let me suggest that you re-cast religion as what it really is; an expression of faith, or belief, in that for which there is no evidence. Atheism then becomes simply the absence of such unfounded and irrational belief.

Atheism is even more illogical than strict Orthodox Theism.
Think about it, DrW... Pretending to know ALL possible descriptions/qualities of all possible deities is making you out to be omniscient! Atheism is a religion of faith - just illogical, misunderstood denial of others' faiths.
If religion really does make one "feel better", perhaps that individual should try to figure out why this is the case. What is missing in their lives that causes them to actually feel better when they think of their imaginary parent?

Actually, studies show that religious or spiritual belief and religious community support have statistically shown to have a positive effect on physical healing.

Also, the subconscious is mysterious but powerful - it governs most of what we think, feel & do.
The subconscious needs a bridge to tap into faith for its positive effects (like placebo effect)... but if your ego gets in the way, it is useless, so the best way most of humanity has discovered for tapping into our ultimate powerful source, is to believe in some type of higher power.
When it comes to real life, evidence based decision-making will result in more predictable and better outcomes, on average, than faith-based decision making.
Nope. Faith and e-motion are similar - not exactly pure logic, but also intuitively prove to be correct. If you take out the emotional part of the brain - one is unable to make any decision - it used to happen when lobotomy's were common.
While I would not argue that religion cannot make life feel better for certain temperament types, having witnessed first hand entire cultures decimated by the practice of religion, and the ignorance it breeds, I must admit that religion makes me a bit nervous. In my experience, people on the whole are generally a lot better off without the burden of false and unfounded belief.
I agree partially - that a substantial amount of mental illness cases may be rooted in misinterpretations of Christian/Judaic doctrine (I read that in an LDS book). Still, the good outweighs the bad, statistically. Morality cannot be governed - religion is required - most people think, feel & act (compulsively) like children - so they need an authority to keep them choosing the right. Ideally, people would do right because they saw it best, even if it was less pleasurable, but the reality doesn't play that out.
How can people who believe in the foundational claims of Mormonism, or that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old - and was created in six days by magic - really be trusted to make good decisions otherwise?
How can anyone be trusted? As Scott Peck wrote, everyone has a religion - just many haven't actually thought through how subjective their beliefs are. Nobody is capable of objective thinking - it's all subjective! Actually, I also get frustrated with ignorant thinking - but it's not limited to LDS myths - it's also liberal and atheism/nihilist myths. Few really think for themselves - they turn to herd mentalities - most LDS on here it seems, have gone from LDS cult to liberal cult - because they can't stand the sense of lonliness and unsurety of not adhering to a set ideology.
by the way; if you don't mind my asking; are you LDS?

I'm a human being. I was raised LDS, baptized, married in the temple, but now my beliefs have evolved so that I don't even believe in Human Sacrifice and Scapegoating (warped Christianity) anymore.
_Amore
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Re: problems with God

Post by _Amore »

canpakes wrote:
Amore wrote:Your problem is not with God (Love/Objective truth).
It's with a particular herd mentality.


Amore, can you expand on - with specificity - both (1) the particular 'herd mentality' that you believe that AKA_ME is afflicted with, and (2) how it is affecting his/her conclusions?

Based on his points #1-8, his problem is with the LDS/Mormon herd mentality, not God.
He's assuming that because of the dysfunctional actions of polygamy, priesthood ban and MMM, etc., God must not exist.

It's jumping to conclusion and other types of logical fallacy to assume God to be nonexistent simply because some people have screwed up.

Although, he hasn't given his own definition of God, a typical one is Intelligent Designer/Creator.
By obsessing about his issues with the LDS mentality to deny God, he's ignoring overwhelming evidence of intelligence design all around him...
"Atheist" Stephen Hawking defined intelligence as the ability to adapt to change.
Evolution is in essence the ability to break out of a successful habit, to try something better - to adapt to change. This universe is obviously created and run by intelligent design.
_canpakes
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Re: problems with God

Post by _canpakes »

Amore wrote:Based on his points #1-8, his problem is with the LDS/Mormon herd mentality, not God.
He's assuming that because of the dysfunctional actions of polygamy, priesthood ban and MMM, etc., God must not exist.

It's jumping to conclusion and other types of logical fallacy to assume God to be nonexistent simply because some people have screwed up.

I partially agree, the difference being that I interpret his argument as speaking to his/her disbelief in the LDS version of God. AKA_ME hasn't really disavowed God in general or any other versions not associated with LDS doctrine or history.

As for the ninth listed complaint, this speaks to the nature of the LDS version of God having once possessed a corporeal body. This belief won't necessarily exist for other interpretations of God.


Amore wrote:Although, he hasn't given his own definition of God, a typical one is Intelligent Designer/Creator.
By obsessing about his issues with the LDS mentality to deny God, he's ignoring overwhelming evidence of intelligence design all around him...
"Atheist" Stephen Hawking defined intelligence as the ability to adapt to change.
Evolution is in essence the ability to break out of a successful habit, to try something better - to adapt to change. This universe is obviously created and run by intelligent design.

You're using, 'overwhelming' and 'obviously' again, in describing something that has no direct proof. You've got to be careful with that approach because it speaks to the same sort of sweeping characterization that is typical of what you most like to complain about - 'herd mentalities', in this case, the kind structured for you by proponents of the intelligent design movement.
_malkie
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Re: problems with God

Post by _malkie »

Zadok wrote:<whisper to person sitting next to me> "What does CFR mean?"

Code of Federal Regulations?
Cost and Freight combined?
Cute Fetching Republicans?
Cause for Repentance?

CFR = Call For Reference (= something other than an opinion to support what you're claiming)
NOMinal member

Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_Zadok
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Re: problems with God

Post by _Zadok »

Thanks!!!
A friendship that requires agreement in all things, is not worthy of the term friendship.
_malkie
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Re: problems with God

Post by _malkie »

Zadok wrote:Thanks!!!

G2G - you're welcome.
NOMinal member

Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_Zadok
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Re: problems with God

Post by _Zadok »

malkie wrote:
Zadok wrote:<whisper to person sitting next to me> "What does CFR mean?"

Code of Federal Regulations?
Cost and Freight combined?
Cute Fetching Republicans?
Cause for Repentance?

CFR = Call For Reference (= something other than an opinion to support what you're claiming)
Now that I have received the further light and knowledge you promised to send, I have another question. When supplying a "CFR" you can supply someone else's opinion, and that is OK, but your own opinion doesn't count?
A friendship that requires agreement in all things, is not worthy of the term friendship.
_subgenius
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Re: problems with God

Post by _subgenius »

Zadok wrote:When supplying a "CFR" you can supply someone else's opinion, and that is OK, but your own opinion doesn't count?

welcome to the internet!
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
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