LittleNipper wrote:blahblah: God created the Universe and life. There is no other logical explanation. If life just "happened" then it should still simply "happen." And so far only "lunatics" believe that they can create life ------ which they've not been able to do. So unless you can create life, I would suggest that your view that there is no God is rather precarious ---- to say the least. This is not a personal attack but an astute observation.
Bazooka wrote:Nipper, I've created life. I watched a programme last night where some Elk created life. Stars are being created and are dying as we speak. People can clone and artificially inseminate. People have created 'artificial' intelligence.
Doesn't the fact that I've been able to create life negate the need for your God?
LittleNipper wrote:more blahblah: (with many question marks) You procreated. You needed a live sperm and a live egg to procreate a human baby. I'll give you some minerals, water and electricity and you could not create life. Find a three day old dead person and you could not bring him back to life. Without an already existing living element you cannot fabricate another biological entity. Robots do not care. They do not live anymore than a house is a living thing. Intelligence that is programmable is not spontaneously motivated nor independent. And if you cannot fabricate life using you're noodle, how can you even imagine life happening by mere chance without any assistance or imagination??????????????????????????????????? GOD is the only logical universal explanation. PLUS, if it takes human ingenuity to fabricate a computer/robot; how can anyone with any brain think that the Robot might just believe it did not need a MAN to have establish its origin? {C3PO to R2D2 > "Man never created us. We simply spontaneously popped into existence!"}
You should read some other science-fiction than your Bible...
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
LittleNipper wrote:blahblah: God created the Universe and life. There is no other logical explanation. If life just "happened" then it should still simply "happen." And so far only "lunatics" believe that they can create life ------ which they've not been able to do. So unless you can create life, I would suggest that your view that there is no God is rather precarious ---- to say the least. This is not a personal attack but an astute observation.
Bazooka wrote:Nipper, I've created life. I watched a programme last night where some Elk created life. Stars are being created and are dying as we speak. People can clone and artificially inseminate. People have created 'artificial' intelligence.
Doesn't the fact that I've been able to create life negate the need for your God?
LittleNipper wrote:more blahblah: (with many question marks) You procreated. You needed a live sperm and a live egg to procreate a human baby. I'll give you some minerals, water and electricity and you could not create life. Find a three day old dead person and you could not bring him back to life. Without an already existing living element you cannot fabricate another biological entity. Robots do not care. They do not live anymore than a house is a living thing. Intelligence that is programmable is not spontaneously motivated nor independent. And if you cannot fabricate life using you're noodle, how can you even imagine life happening by mere chance without any assistance or imagination??????????????????????????????????? GOD is the only logical universal explanation. PLUS, if it takes human ingenuity to fabricate a computer/robot; how can anyone with any brain think that the Robot might just believe it did not need a MAN to have establish its origin? {C3PO to R2D2 > "Man never created us. We simply spontaneously popped into existence!"}
You should read some other science-fiction than your Bible...
I love science fiction, Dune, Time Machine, 20 000 Leagues Under the Sea, Time and Again, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, Soylent Green, 1984, Frankenstein ... I find that science fiction often assumes God exists and juxtaposes the dilemma through a morality play. Man is very creative but without God he simply cannot explain why he even should be.
Job 10:1-22 I hate my life. I tell God, "Condemn me not. Let me know the problem." What's to gain by abusing me, rejecting a work you started, but now favor the plans of the wicked?
Do you actually have human eyes? Do you see like as a mortal? Are your days like mine? Do years for you move along like human’s years? Is that why you seek my guilt, and search for my sin?
You know I’m not at fault, but there is no one to save me from you. Your hands created and formed me, then you gobble me up.
Please remember that you formed me of clay and to dust I will return. Didn’t you pour me out like fresh milk and curdle me like cheese?
Didn’t you cover me in skin and flesh and weave together my bones and tendons?
You provided me life and mercy. Your care preserved my spirit. But in your heart you hid things. I know you did.
If I sin, you see me and will not let me escape my guilt. How horrific it will be if I’m guilty! Even if I’m righteous, I dare not lift up my head. I am full with disgrace while I look about my misery.
Like a proud, fierce lion you wear me down. Your miracles work against me. You keep sending new witnesses against me --- increasing your anger toward me, and sending additional armies after me.
Why did you allow me to be born? I was stillborn before anyone saw me. Then it would be as if I had never existed ------------------ from the womb to the tomb.
Isn’t my life short enough? Stop, leave me alone. Give me time to smile a little before the end, When I'll depart to darkness and gloom, a dismal land of long shadows and confusion where is no light ----- never to return."
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 My soul hath been weary of my life, I leave off my talking to myself, I speak in the bitterness of my soul.
2 I say unto God, `Do not condemn me, Let me know why Thou dost strive [with] me.
3 Is it good for Thee that Thou dost oppress? That Thou despisest the labour of Thy hands, And on the counsel of the wicked hast shone?
4 Eyes of flesh hast Thou? As man seeth -- seest Thou?
5 As the days of man [are] Thy days? Thy years as the days of a man?
6 That Thou inquirest for mine iniquity, And for my sin seekest?
7 For Thou knowest that I am not wicked, And there is no deliverer from Thy hand.
8 Thy hands have taken pains about me, And they make me together round about, And Thou swallowest me up!
9 Remember, I pray Thee, That as clay Thou hast made me, And unto dust Thou dost bring me back.
10 Dost Thou not as milk pour me out? And as cheese curdle me?
11 Skin and flesh Thou dost put on me, And with bones and sinews dost fence me.
12 Life and kindness Thou hast done with me. And Thy inspection hath preserved my spirit.
13 And these Thou hast laid up in Thy heart, I have known that this [is] with Thee.
14 If I sinned, then Thou hast observed me, And from mine iniquity dost not acquit me,
15 If I have done wickedly -- wo to me, And righteously -- I lift not up my head, Full of shame -- then see my affliction,
16 And it riseth -- as a lion Thou huntest me. And Thou turnest back -- Thou shewest Thyself wonderful in me.
17 Thou renewest Thy witnesses against me, And dost multiply Thine anger with me, Changes and warfare [are] with me.
18 And why from the womb Hast Thou brought me forth? I expire, and the eye doth not see me.
19 As I had not been, I am, From the belly to the grave I am brought,
20 Are not my days few? Cease then, and put from me, And I brighten up a little,
21 Before I go, and return not, Unto a land of darkness and death-shade,
22 A land of obscurity as thick darkness, Death-shade -- and no order, And the shining [is] as thick darkness.'
“Shouldn't lots of talk be answered? Should a man full of such talk be justified? Should your empty talk silence men? And when you mock, will no one say shame on you? For you have said, ‘My discourse is pure. And I am faultless to you.’
If only God would say something and open His mouth against you, and show you the secrets of His wisdom! For they would expand your foresight. And realize that God overlooks some of your iniquity.
Can you find out the depths of God? Can you find out everything concerning the Almighty? It is as high as heaven; what are your abilities? Deeper than the underworld; so what can you know? Its measure is beyond anything material and broader than any sea.
“If God goes through, and closes up, and gathers for judgment, then who can stop Him? For He understands worthless men; He sees wickedness to; will He not then contemplate such?
An empty-headed man will turn wise, when a wild donkey’s colt is born a male infant. If you prepare your heart and stretch out your hands toward Him; if immorality is being considered, put it far away, and do not allow wickedness to dwell in your home; for then you will lift up your face without blemish; you will become firm and will not be afraid, because you will forget the pain, and it will become water under a bridge.
Your life will be brighter than high noon, even your shadows will be like morning. You will trust because there is hope; yes, you will search about you, and you will look around and rest in safety.
You will lie down, and no one will frighten you; many will seek your favor.
The eyes of the wicked fail, there is no escape, and their hope will be as death.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Zophar the Naamathite answereth and saith: --
2 Is a multitude of words not answered? And is a man of lips justified?
3 Thy devices make men keep silent, Thou scornest, and none is causing blushing!
4 And thou sayest, `Pure [is] my discourse, And clean I have been in Thine eyes.'
5 And yet, O that God had spoken! And doth open His lips with thee.
6 And declare to thee secrets of wisdom, For counsel hath foldings. And know thou that God forgetteth for thee, [Some] of thine iniquity.
7 By searching dost thou find out God? Unto perfection find out the Mighty One?
8 Heights of the heavens! -- what dost thou? Deeper than Sheol! -- what knowest thou?
9 Longer than earth [is] its measure, And broader than the sea.
10 If He pass on, and shut up, and assemble, Who then dost reverse it?
11 For he hath known men of vanity, And He seeth iniquity, And one doth not consider [it]!
12 And empty man is bold, And the colt of a wild ass man is born.
13 If thou -- thou hast prepared thy heart, And hast spread out unto Him thy hands,
14 If iniquity [is] in thy hand, put it far off, And let not perverseness dwell in thy tents.
15 For then thou liftest up thy face from blemish, And thou hast been firm, and fearest not.
16 For thou dost forget misery, As waters passed away thou rememberest.
17 And above the noon doth age rise, Thou fliest -- as the morning thou art.
18 And thou hast trusted because their is hope, And searched -- in confidence thou liest down,
19 And thou hast rested, And none is causing trembling, And many have entreated thy face;
20 And the eyes of the wicked are consumed, And refuge hath perished from them, And their hope [is] a breathing out of soul!
Job 12:1-25 Job’s reply: “Yes, I realize you guys know everything and wisdom will die with you! Well, I understand a little myself— you are no different than me. And who isn't like us. I the one who begged God for help, and God answered, is now a joke. Yes, I, a righteous man, am now the man they ridicule. The rich mock those in trouble and quickly despise the needy. Robbers prosper. Provoke God—it doesn't matter! He will supply what you need!
Who doesn’t realize that the Lord does this? From the dumbest beast— the birds— or the fish of the sea witness that needs are supplied. The soul of all living things remain in God's hands, and the breath of all humanity. Just as I hear and my mouth can taste good food, so my mind takes in the truth. Older men are experienced. With time comes understanding. True wisdom and power are God’s. He alone knows what we should do; he comprehends everything.
He is great! What he destroys can’t be rebuilt. When he targets a man, there is no escape. He withholds the rain, and the earth turns into a desert; he sends the storms and the land is flooded. Yes, with him is strength and wisdom. Deceivers and deceived are his slaves.
He spoils the advice of counselors and makes fools of judges. He deposes kings and girds their strength. Priests are led away as slaves. He overthrows the strong. He takes away the commitment of the unwavering and the insight of the old. He pours contempt upon princes and weakens the powerful. He floods the darkness with brightness, even at death's door. He raises up a nation and then destroys it. He makes it great, and then reduces it to nothing. He takes away the understanding of leaders, and lets them wander, lost and groping, without the guiding light.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
12 And Job answereth and saith: --
2 Truly -- ye [are] the people, And with you doth wisdom die.
3 I also have a heart like you, I am not fallen more than you, And with whom is there not like these?
4 A laughter to his friend I am: `He calleth to God, and He answereth him,' A laughter [is] the perfect righteous one.
5 A torch -- despised in the thoughts of the secure Is prepared for those sliding with the feet.
6 At peace are the tents of spoilers, And those provoking God have confidence, He into whose hand God hath brought.
7 And yet, ask, I pray thee, [One of] the beasts, and it doth shew thee, And a fowl of the heavens, And it doth declare to thee.
8 Or talk to the earth, and it sheweth thee, And fishes of the sea recount to thee:
9 `Who hath not known in all these, That the hand of Jehovah hath done this?
10 In whose hand [is] the breath of every living thing, And the spirit of all flesh of man.'
11 Doth not the ear try words? And the palate taste food for itself?
12 With the very aged [is] wisdom, And [with] length of days understanding.
13 With Him [are] wisdom and might, To him [are] counsel and understanding.
14 Lo, He breaketh down, and it is not built up, He shutteth against a man, And it is not opened.
15 Lo, He keepeth in the waters, and they are dried up, And he sendeth them forth, And they overturn the land.
16 With Him [are] strength and wisdom, His the deceived and deceiver.
17 Causing counsellors to go away a spoil, And judges He maketh foolish.
18 The bands of kings He hath opened, And He bindeth a girdle on their loins.
19 Causing ministers to go away a spoil And strong ones He overthroweth.
20 Turning aside the lip of the stedfast, And the reason of the aged He taketh away.
21 Pouring contempt upon princes, And the girdle of the mighty He made feeble.
22 Removing deep things out of darkness, And He bringeth out to light death-shade.
23 Magnifying the nations, and He destroyeth them, Spreading out the nations, and He quieteth them.
24 Turning aside the heart Of the heads of the people of the land, And he causeth them to wander In vacancy -- no way!
25 They feel darkness, and not light, He causeth them to wander as a drunkard.
Job 14:1-22 “Mortals don't live very long and face hardship after hardship.
They sprout and blossom like flowers and then wither; like shadows, they are not permanent.
Even this you witness. You bring me before you for judgment.
Who brings purity from filth? No one!
A length of an individual's life is resolved; you have decreed how many months he gets, and have set limits he cannot surpass.
Turn away from him and let him die, so he may enjoy the fruit of his labor.
At least for a tree there remains hope that if it is cut down, it will sprout again, and the new shoots will grow.
Its roots may age in the ground and its stump die in the dirt,
yet at the hint of water it will bud and send shoots out like a plant.
But man dies losing his abilities; he exhales and passes away.
As the water of a sea dries up or a riverbed becomes parched, so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more. Until that time the dead will not awake from their sleep.
If only you would hide me in the grave until your anger ceases! If only you would apoint me a moment and then recall me!
If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my hard toil I have thought concerning my change to come.
You will call and I will answer; you will long for the creature your hands created.
Then you will count my steps but forget my sin.
My offenses will be sealed in a bag and you will correct my sin.
As a mountain erodes and crumbles and as a rock is pushed aside, as water wears down stones and torrents carry away the soil, so you destroy a man's expectations.
You overcome him finally, and he leaves; you change his expression and cast him out.
If his decedents are honored, he will never know; if his offspring become destitute, he do not be shown it.
He feels only the pain of his own body and mourns only for himself.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 Man, born of woman! Of few days, and full of trouble!
2 As a flower he hath gone forth, and is cut off, And he fleeth as a shadow and standeth not.
3 Also -- on this Thou hast opened Thine eyes, And dost bring me into judgment with Thee.
4 Who giveth a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
5 If determined are his days, The number of his months [are] with Thee, His limit Thou hast made, And he passeth not over;
6 Look away from off him that he may cease, Till he enjoy as an hireling his day.
7 For there is of a tree hope, if it be cut down, That again it doth change, That its tender branch doth not cease.
8 If its root becometh old in the earth, And its stem doth die in the dust,
9 From the fragrance of water it doth flourish, And hath made a crop as a plant.
10 And a man dieth, and becometh weak, And man expireth, and where [is] he?
11 Waters have gone away from a sea, And a river becometh waste and dry.
12 And man hath lain down, and riseth not, Till the wearing out of the heavens they awake not, Nor are roused from their sleep.
13 O that in Sheol Thou wouldst conceal me, Hide me till the turning of Thine anger, Set for me a limit, and remember me.
14 If a man dieth -- doth he revive? All days of my warfare I wait, till my change come.
15 Thou dost call, and I -- I answer Thee; To the work of Thy hands Thou hast desire.
16 But now, my steps Thou numberest, Thou dost not watch over my sin.
17 Sealed up in a bag [is] my transgression, And Thou sewest up mine iniquity.
18 And yet, a falling mountain wasteth away, And a rock is removed from its place.
19 Stones have waters worn away, Their outpourings wash away the dust of earth, And the hope of man Thou hast destroyed.
20 Thou prevailest [over] him for ever, and he goeth, He is changing his countenance, And Thou sendest him away.
21 Honoured are his sons, and he knoweth not; And they are little, and he attendeth not to them.
22 Only -- his flesh for him is pained, And his soul for him doth mourn.'
Last edited by Guest on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
Read the entire chapter. "The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem." God sees Jerusalem behaving as a whore.
The reality is that a parent would not read this to a young child. But the fact remains that many people behave and lust exactly as in this tale of Oholah and Oholibah but hypocritically do not feel that the Bible should expose their perversion for what it is.
Read the entire chapter. "The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem." God sees Jerusalem behaving as a whore.
The reality is that a parent would not read this to a young child. But the fact remains that many people behave and lust exactly as in this tale of Oholah and Oholibah but hypocritically do not feel that the Bible should expose their perversion for what it is.
Oh, so Christians are allowed to read porn as long as it's special porn that's specifically intended to expose porn.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
