LittleNipper wrote:This should be considered as a sardonic title for the "anti-christ" or beast. He claims to be "Christ". He claims to be Messiah, and has his moment under the sun, but comes to be brought low ultimately.
This should not. Nothing to do with anti-christ --- especially millenia before Christ. Same as messiah...
This character is simply a Babylonian king, who was called Morning Star --- as Louis XIV (5 September 1638 – 1 September 1715), was known as Louis the Great (Louis le Grand) or the Sun King (le Roi-Soleil), because of their bright court... Read your own books:
KJV wrote:Isaiah 14:4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
YLT wrote:Isaiah 14:4. That thou hast taken up this simile Concerning the king of Babylon, and said, How hath the exactor ceased,
(by the way why your pet translation uses a comma at the end of a sentence? The comma is used in many contexts and languages, mainly for separating parts of a sentence such as clauses, and items in lists, particularly when there are three or more items listed.)
LittleNipper wrote:Contrast the real Bright Morning Star (Jesus)
What? Contrast the man thirty or whatever generations later? Are you joking? Who does make a contrast of --- for example Julius Caesar an John Kennedy...
LittleNipper wrote:Satan is a copy-cat and twists everything 180 degrees in a different direction.
No such being as satan. It exists only in your unfeatured imagination. Sorry pal... this is the case...
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
LittleNipper wrote:This should be considered as a sardonic title for the "anti-christ" or beast. He claims to be "Christ". He claims to be Messiah, and has his moment under the sun, but comes to be brought low ultimately.
This should not. Nothing to do with anti-christ --- especially millenia before Christ. Same as messiah...
This character is simply a Babylonian king, who was called Morning Star --- as Louis XIV (5 September 1638 – 1 September 1715), was known as Louis the Great (Louis le Grand) or the Sun King (le Roi-Soleil), because of their bright court... Read your own books:
KJV wrote:Isaiah 14:4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
YLT wrote:Isaiah 14:4. That thou hast taken up this simile Concerning the king of Babylon, and said, How hath the exactor ceased,
(by the way why your pet translation uses a comma at the end of a sentence? The comma is used in many contexts and languages, mainly for separating parts of a sentence such as clauses, and items in lists, particularly when there are three or more items listed.)
LittleNipper wrote:Contrast the real Bright Morning Star (Jesus)
What? Contrast the man thirty or whatever generations later? Are you joking? Who does make a contrast of --- for example Julius Caesar an John Kennedy...
LittleNipper wrote:Satan is a copy-cat and twists everything 180 degrees in a different direction.
No such being as satan. It exists only in your unfeatured imagination. Sorry pal... this is the case...
I do believe Satan is a real being, as was Hitler a real being. And I believe that Hitler was influenced by Satan through a series of extenuating circumstances to attempt to bring about the annihilation of the Jewish race, or at the very least to totally prevent any attempt to resurrect and reestablish of the nation of Israel. It would seem that Israel is always at the center of most if not all world issues today. Oddly, 100 years ago no one would even have imagined (except for some Biblical Christians) that Israel would ever exist again. That FACT is not of my own imagination. The Bible is full of likes and types. I see Hitler as a type of Anti-Christ. He may very well be a precursor to the real Anti-Christ. We have prophetic messages throughout the Bible. And clearly what is happening in the Mideast is nothing to ignore and say it is of little or no consequence.
The likelihood is that the King of Tyre was being revealed as likened to the fall of Satan. And that prophetically speaking both are being revealed as to what would happen in the future to the Anti-Christ. History does repeat itself ------- this is not a coincidence. A revelation can be either accepted or rejected; however, one must have a rational explanation or simply turn a blind eye and ignore all the danger signals.
If there is no GOD there cannot exist goodness. Likewise, without Satan, there can be no evil. Evolution is founded on the notion that the survival of the fittest is purely a "natural" phenomenon without tangible notions such as good or evil. Consequently, Species and individuals do exactly what they do in order to survive to the fullest extent of their being. And this is the dilemma --- If I do something to hurt you, is that really bad or simply a fact of the "order" of things.
Job 18:1-21 Then Bildad the Shuhite answered, “How long will you keep talking? Show understanding and then we can talk. Why are we thought of as cattle? Why do you see us as soiled? You tear yourself in your anger, will the earth become barren because of you? Or will rock roll away?
Yes, the light of the sinful is put out. His flame does not give light. The light in his tent is dark, and his lamp goes out above him. His strong strides are shortened, and his own plans fail him. He is thrown down into a net by his feet walking across it. A trap grabs his foot and holds him. A rope is hidden on the ground for him. This trap is set for him along the path. He is filled with fear from every side --- following him with every step. He feeds his sorrow because trouble is waiting for him from every side. His skin is infected with disease and the beginning of death eats him feet first. He is removed from his tent where he was safe, and is brought to the king of fears.
Fire destroys everything in his tent and sulphur spreads where he lives. His roots are dried below and his shoot is cut off above. He will be totally forgotten. His name will not be unknown. He is sent from light into darkness, and driven away from among people. He has no children among his people to assume his name. Those in the west are surprised and fearful of what happened to him. And those in the east are anguished. These are the houses of the sinful. This is the place of him who does not know God.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Bildad the Shuhite answereth and saith: --
2 When do ye set an end to words? Consider ye, and afterwards do we speak.
3 Wherefore have we been reckoned as cattle? We have been defiled in your eyes!
4 (He is tearing himself in his anger.) For thy sake is earth forsaken? And removed is a rock from its place?
5 Also, the light of the wicked is extinguished. And there doth not shine a spark of his fire.
6 The light hath been dark in his tent, And his lamp over him is extinguished.
7 Straitened are the steps of his strength, And cast him down doth his own counsel.
8 For he is sent into a net by his own feet, And on a snare he doth walk habitually.
9 Seize on the heel doth a gin, Prevail over him do the designing.
10 Hidden in the earth is his cord, And his trap on the path.
11 Round about terrified him have terrors, And they have scattered him -- at his feet.
12 Hungry is his sorrow, And calamity is ready at his side.
13 It consumeth the parts of his skin, Consume his parts doth death's first-born.
14 Drawn from his tent is his confidence, And it causeth him to step to the king of terrors.
15 It dwelleth in his tent -- out of his provender, Scattered over his habitation is sulphur.
16 From beneath his roots are dried up, And from above cut off is his crop.
17 His memorial hath perished from the land, And he hath no name on the street.
18 They thrust him from light unto darkness, And from the habitable earth cast him out.
19 He hath no continuator, Nor successor among his people, And none is remaining in his dwellings.
20 At this day westerns have been astonished And easterns have taken fright.
21 Only these [are] tabernacles of the perverse, And this the place God hath not known.
LittleNipper wrote:I do believe Satan is a real being
This is your own social problem. Please show us one case, when any entity can be called satan, caused any harm to any human!
by the way what about Santa, Easter Bunny, Batman, Spiderman... are they real beings? There are a lot of script and video which prove their existence---
LittleNipper wrote: as was Hitler a real being.
Please don't be rude to that millions (1? 2? 5? 6?) who have died because of that real being. And to their kindred who are remembering.
Then the fairy tales...
LittleNipper wrote:And I believe that Hitler was influenced by Satan through a series of extenuating circumstances to attempt to bring about the annihilation of the Jewish race, or at the very least to totally prevent any attempt to resurrect and reestablish of the nation of Israel. It would seem that Israel is always at the center of most if not all world issues today. Oddly, 100 years ago no one would even have imagined (except for some Biblical Christians) that Israel would ever exist again. That FACT is not of my own imagination. The Bible is full of likes and types. I see Hitler as a type of Anti-Christ. He may very well be a precursor to the real Anti-Christ. We have prophetic messages throughout the Bible. And clearly what is happening in the Mideast is nothing to ignore and say it is of little or no consequence.
The likelihood is that the King of Tyre was being revealed as likened to the fall of Satan. And that prophetically speaking both are being revealed as to what would happen in the future to the Anti-Christ. History does repeat itself ------- this is not a coincidence. A revelation can be either accepted or rejected; however, one must have a rational explanation or simply turn a blind eye and ignore all the danger signals.
If there is no GOD there cannot exist goodness. Likewise, without Satan, there can be no evil. Evolution is founded on the notion that the survival of the fittest is purely a "natural" phenomenon without tangible notions such as good or evil. Consequently, Species and individuals do exactly what they do in order to survive to the fullest extent of their being. And this is the dilemma --- If I do something to hurt you, is that really bad or simply a fact of the "order" of things.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
LittleNipper wrote:I do believe Satan is a real being
This is your own social problem. Please show us one case, when any entity can be called satan, caused any harm to any human!
by the way what about Santa, Easter Bunny, Batman, Spiderman... are they real beings? There are a lot of script and video which prove their existence---
LittleNipper wrote: as was Hitler a real being.
Please don't be rude to that millions (1? 2? 5? 6?) who have died because of that real being. And to their kindred who are remembering.
Then the fairy tales...
LittleNipper wrote:And I believe that Hitler was influenced by Satan through a series of extenuating circumstances to attempt to bring about the annihilation of the Jewish race, or at the very least to totally prevent any attempt to resurrect and reestablish of the nation of Israel. It would seem that Israel is always at the center of most if not all world issues today. Oddly, 100 years ago no one would even have imagined (except for some Biblical Christians) that Israel would ever exist again. That FACT is not of my own imagination. The Bible is full of likes and types. I see Hitler as a type of Anti-Christ. He may very well be a precursor to the real Anti-Christ. We have prophetic messages throughout the Bible. And clearly what is happening in the Mideast is nothing to ignore and say it is of little or no consequence.
The likelihood is that the King of Tyre was being revealed as likened to the fall of Satan. And that prophetically speaking both are being revealed as to what would happen in the future to the Anti-Christ. History does repeat itself ------- this is not a coincidence. A revelation can be either accepted or rejected; however, one must have a rational explanation or simply turn a blind eye and ignore all the danger signals.
If there is no GOD there cannot exist goodness. Likewise, without Satan, there can be no evil. Evolution is founded on the notion that the survival of the fittest is purely a "natural" phenomenon without tangible notions such as good or evil. Consequently, Species and individuals do exactly what they do in order to survive to the fullest extent of their being. And this is the dilemma --- If I do something to hurt you, is that really bad or simply a fact of the "order" of things.
My guess is that you define rudeness according to your own made-up judgments, as you do not believe in good or evil. I would submit to you that to say that millions died for NOTHING is indeed a terrible thing. So, I'm not as rude as you wish to define it. However, without God there is no such a thing as RIGHT or MORALITY or GOODNESS or MERCY or JUSTICE or ETERNITY. They are a figment of YOUR OWN IMAGINATION or someone else's contrivance ---------- without GOD! Man invented those other characters who also fit the pagan mold of a god being nothing but a super human. There is a very noticeable difference between the founding of Israel and the founding of MARVEL COMICS.
Job 19:1-29 Job replied to his friends, How long will you torment me and depress me your sayings?
You've insulted me 10 times. You’re not even ashamed of making me miserable.
Let's say if it were true that I made some mistake without realizing it, my mistake would affect just me.
If you are trying to make yourselves appear better than me by using my disgrace as an argument against me, then I wish you to realize that God has wronged me and surrounded me with his net.
I cry, ‘Help! I’m being harmed!’ but I get no response ----- there is no justice.
God has blocked my way so that I have no way to go. He has darkened my path.
He has stripped me of honor --- lifting the crown off my head.
He knocks me down on every side until I’m gone. He uproots my hope like a tree.
He is angry with me. He considers me his enemy.
His legions assemble against me. They build a ramp to attack me and camp around me.
My brothers keep far away from me. My friends act as complete strangers.
My relatives and my closest friends don't come. My house guests ignore me.
My female slaves consider me a stranger and a foreigner to them.
I call my slave, but he doesn’t answer, though I beg him.
My breath offends my wife. my family finds me repulsive.
Even little children despise me. If I stand up, they make fun of me.
All my closest friends are disgusted with me. Those I love have turned against me.
I am skin and bones, and I exist only by the skin of my teeth.
Take pity on me, friends! Have pity on me because God’s hand has knocked me to the ground.
Why do you pursue me the same as God, and never satisfied with simply my flesh?
I wish someone would take dictation and inscribe all this on a scroll.
I wish this this was forever engraved in stone with hammer and chisel.
But I know that my defender lives, and for us He will come to live here.
Even after my skin has rotted off my carcass , I will see God in my flesh.
I will see him with my own eyes, not through someone else’s.
My heart fails inside me!
You say, ‘Why persecute him? Because the root of the problem is found in him.’
Fear death, because raging are the punishments of death. Then you will see the judge.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Job answereth and saith: --
2 Till when do ye afflict my soul, And bruise me with words?
3 These ten times ye put me to shame, ye blush not. Ye make yourselves strange to me --
4 And also -- truly, I have erred, With me doth my error remain.
5 If, truly, over me ye magnify yourselves, And decide against me my reproach;
6 Know now, that God turned me upside down, And His net against me hath set round,
7 Lo, I cry out -- violence, and am not answered, I cry aloud, and there is no judgment.
8 My way He hedged up, and I pass not over, And on my paths darkness He placeth.
9 Mine honour from off me He hath stripped, And He turneth the crown from my head.
10 He breaketh me down round about, and I go, And removeth like a tree my hope.
11 And He kindleth against me His anger, And reckoneth me to Him as His adversaries.
12 Come in do His troops together, And they raise up against me their way, And encamp round about my tent.
13 My brethren from me He hath put far off, And mine acquaintances surely Have been estranged from me.
14 Ceased have my neighbours And my familiar friends have forgotten me,
15 Sojourners of my house and my maids, For a stranger reckon me: An alien I have been in their eyes.
16 To my servant I have called, And he doth not answer, With my mouth I make supplication to him.
17 My spirit is strange to my wife, And my favours to the sons of my [mother's] womb.
18 Also sucklings have despised me, I rise, and they speak against me.
19 Abominate me do all the men of my counsel, And those I have loved, Have been turned against me.
20 To my skin and to my flesh Cleaved hath my bone, And I deliver myself with the skin of my teeth.
21 Pity me, pity me, ye my friends, For the hand of God hath stricken against me.
22 Why do you pursue me as God? And with my flesh are not satisfied?
23 Who doth grant now, That my words may be written? Who doth grant that in a book they may be graven?
24 With a pen of iron and lead -- For ever in a rock they may be hewn.
25 That -- I have known my Redeemer, The Living and the Last, For the dust he doth rise.
26 And after my skin hath compassed this [body], Then from my flesh I see God:
27 Whom I -- I see on my side, And mine eyes have beheld, and not a stranger, Consumed have been my reins in my bosom.
28 But ye say, `Why do we pursue after him?' And the root of the matter hath been found in me.
29 Be ye afraid because of the sword, For furious [are] the punishments of the sword, That ye may know that [there is] a judgment.
Seeing a Hungarian refer to the various authors of the Bible as "barbarians" is amusing. Anyway, I look forward to ludwigm's next ill-thought-out, generally incoherent post.
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
Job 20:1-29 Then Zophar from Naama replied to Job,
“My disturbing thoughts make me answer, and they upset me.
I have heard criticism that makes me ashamed, but a spirit beyond my understanding provides answers. A evil Person’s Joy Is Short.
Don’t you know from ancient times, when humans came to exist, the triumph of the wicked is short, and the joy of the godless person lasts only a moment?
If his height reaches the sky and his head touches the clouds, he will certainly rot like feces. Those who have observed him will say, ‘Where is he?’
He will fly away like a dream and not be found. He will be banished like a vision in the night.
Eyes that saw him will witness him no more. He can never go home again.
His children will ask the poor for assistance. His own hands will give back his wealth.
His bones, once full of youthful vitality, will lay down by him in the dirt.
Though evil is sweet in his mouth and he hides it under his tongue. . . . Though he tastes it and won’t let go of it and covers it with his tongue, the food in his belly turns sour. It becomes snake venom to his heart.
He vomits up the nourishment that he swallowed. God forces it out of his stomach.
The godless person sucks the poison of snakes. A viper’s fang kills him.
He won’t be able to drink from the streams or from the rivers of honey and buttermilk.
He will return what he earned without enjoying it. He will get no joy from the profits of his business because he abused and abandoned the poor. He has stolen by force a house that he didn’t build.
He will never realize peace in his soul. He will never allow anything he covets to escape his grasp.
Nothing is left for him to eat. His prosperity will end.
Even with all his wealth the full force of misery visits him.
Let that misery fill his belly. God throws his burning anger at the godless and causes his wrath to come down on him like rain.
If that person flees from an iron weapon, a bronze bow will pierce him.
He pulls it out, and it comes out of his back. The glittering point comes out of his gallbladder.
Terrors arrive fast to the godless person:
Total darkness waits in hiding for his possessions. A fire that no one started will burn him. Whatever is left in his tent will be wasted.
Heaven exposes his sin. Earth rises up against him.
A flood will sweep away his house, on the day of his anger.
This is the reward God provides to the evil person ---- an inheritance God has appointed.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Zophar the Naamathite answereth and saith: --
2 Therefore my thoughts cause me to answer, And because of my sensations in me.
3 The chastisement of my shame I hear, And the spirit of mine understanding Doth cause me to answer:
4 This hast thou known from antiquity? Since the placing of man on earth?
5 That the singing of the wicked [is] short, And the joy of the profane for a moment,
6 Though his excellency go up to the heavens, And his head against a cloud he strike --
7 As his own dung for ever he doth perish, His beholders say: `Where [is] he?'
8 As a dream he fleeth, and they find him not, And he is driven away as a vision of the night,
9 The eye hath not seen him, and addeth not. And not again doth his place behold him.
10 His sons do the poor oppress, And his hands give back his wealth.
11 His bones have been full of his youth, And with him on the dust it lieth down.
12 Though he doth sweeten evil in his mouth, Doth hide it under his tongue,
13 Hath pity on it, and doth not forsake it, And keep it back in the midst of his palate,
14 His food in his bowels is turned, The bitterness of asps [is] in his heart.
15 Wealth he hath swallowed, and doth vomit it. From his belly God driveth it out.
16 Gall of asps he sucketh, Slay him doth the tongue of a viper.
17 He looketh not on rivulets, Flowing of brooks of honey and butter.
18 He is giving back [what] he laboured for, And doth not consume [it]; As a bulwark [is] his exchange, and he exults not.
19 For he oppressed -- he forsook the poor, A house he hath taken violently away, And he doth not build it.
20 For he hath not known ease in his belly. With his desirable thing he delivereth not himself.
21 There is not a remnant to his food, Therefore his good doth not stay.
22 In the fulness of his sufficiency he is straitened. Every perverse hand doth meet him.
23 It cometh to pass, at the filling of his belly, He sendeth forth against him The fierceness of His anger, Yea, He raineth on him in his eating.
24 He fleeth from an iron weapon, Pass through him doth a bow of brass.
25 One hath drawn, And it cometh out from the body, And a glittering weapon from his gall proceedeth. On him [are] terrors.
26 All darkness is hid for his treasures, Consume him doth a fire not blown, Broken is the remnant in his tent.
27 Reveal do the heavens his iniquity, And earth is raising itself against him.
28 Remove doth the increase of his house, Poured forth in a day of His anger.
29 This [is] the portion of a wicked man from God. And an inheritance appointed him by God.
Job 22:1-30 Job 22:1-30 Eliphaz the Temanite replied:
“Can a man be of benefit to God --- even a wise person?
What pleasure would it give God if you were righteous or if your ways were blameless?
Is it for your piety that he rebukes you and brings charges against you?
Is wickedness not great and your sins endless?
You demanded security from your relatives without reason; you stripped people naked who have nothing.
You gave no water to the weary and you withheld food from the hungry, even though you were a powerful, honored land owner.
And you sent widows away empty-handed and humbled the fatherless.
That is why traps are around you, and why sudden peril terrifies you, why can't you see, and why a flood covers you.
Is not God high above in heaven? See how far away are the highest stars!
Yet you say, ‘What does God know? Does he judge through such darkness? Thick clouds veil him, so he does not see us as he goes about in the vaulted heavens.’
Will you keep to the same path that the wicked walked?
They were carried off before their time, their foundations washed away in the Flood.
They jeered to God, ‘Leave us be! What can God do to us?’
Yet it was He who filled their houses with good things, so I stand aloof from the plans of wicked men.
The righteous witness their destruction and cheer; the innocent mock, saying, 'Surely our enemies have been destroyed, and fire devours their wealth.’
Submit to God and be at peace with him; in this way prosperity will come to you.
Accept instruction from his mouth and hide His words in your heart.
If you return to the Almighty, you will be restored: If you remove wickedness from your tent and assign defense against dust, and a covering over the rocks in the valley.
The Almighty will then be your defense, and the choicest silver for you.
Then you will find happiness in the Almighty and look up to God.
You will pray to him, and he will hear you, and you will fulfill your vows.
What you want will be provided, and light will shine on what you do.
When people are dragged down and you say, ‘Lift them up!’ then he will save the downcast.
He will deliver even one who is not innocent, being delivered through the cleanness of your hands.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Eliphaz the Temanite answereth and saith: --
2 To God is a man profitable, Because a wise man to himself is profitable?
3 Is it a delight to the Mighty One That thou art righteous? is it gain, That thou makest perfect thy ways?
4 Because of thy reverence Doth He reason [with] thee? He entereth with thee into judgment:
5 Is not thy wickedness abundant? And there is no end to thine iniquities.
6 For thou takest a pledge of thy brother for nought, And the garments of the naked Thou dost strip off.
7 Thou causest not the weary to drink water, And from the hungry thou withholdest bread.
8 As to the man of arm -- he hath the earth, And the accepted of face -- he dwelleth in it.
9 Widows thou hast sent away empty, And the arms of the fatherless are bruised.
10 Therefore round about thee [are] snares, And trouble thee doth fear suddenly.
11 Or darkness -- thou dost not see, And abundance of waters doth cover thee.
12 Is not God high [in] heaven? And see the summit of the stars, That they are high.
13 And thou hast said, `What -- hath God known? Through thickness doth He judge?
14 Thick clouds [are] a secret place to Him, And He doth not see;' And the circle of the heavens He walketh habitually,
15 The path of the age dost thou observe, That men of iniquity have trodden?
16 Who have been cut down unexpectedly, A flood is poured out on their foundation.
17 Those saying to God, `Turn aside from us,' And what doth the Mighty One to them?
18 And he hath filled their houses [with] good: (And the counsel of the wicked Hath been far from me.)
19 See do the righteous and they rejoice, And the innocent mocketh at them,
20 `Surely our substance hath not been cut off, And their excellency hath fire consumed.'
21 Acquaint thyself, I pray thee, with Him, And be at peace, Thereby thine increase [is] good.
22 Receive, I pray thee, from His mouth a law, And set His sayings in thy heart.
23 If thou dost return unto the Mighty Thou art built up, Thou puttest iniquity far from thy tents.
24 So as to set on the dust a defence, And on a rock of the valleys a covering.
25 And the Mighty hath been thy defence, And silver [is] strength to thee.
26 For then on the Mighty thou delightest thyself, And dost lift up unto God thy face,
27 Thou dost make supplication unto Him, And He doth hear thee, And thy vows thou completest.
28 And thou decreest a saying, And it is established to thee, And on thy ways hath light shone.
29 For they have made low, And thou sayest, `Lift up.' And the bowed down of eyes he saveth.
30 He delivereth the not innocent, Yea, he hath been delivered By the cleanness of thy hands.
The Bible is full of likes and types. I see Hitler as a type of Anti-Christ. He may very well be a precursor to the real Anti-Christ. We have prophetic messages throughout the Bible. And clearly what is happening in the Mideast is nothing to ignore and say it is of little or no consequence.