Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Jersey Girl]

Is there contemporaneous evidence that she withdrew consent?

From what I remember, she was uncomfortable about staying in someone's home because John had used that opportunity before to sneak into her room late at night after she told him not to.

The evidence she provided to back this up were emails expressing her discomfort at staying in someone's home and declaring her intention to get her own hotel room. She also provided the receipt to prove she followed through and booked the hotel room.

But I don't remember anything in writing where the actual withdrawal of consent happened. It may not have happened in writing.

Did the emails directly say that her discomfort was on account of his potential activity with her? If not (Jersey thinking) I would leave this open to the possibility that she thought he might follow her to the hotel.

Don't come for me!

[pistolero]

From what I remember, she was uncomfortable about staying in someone's home because John had used that opportunity before to sneak into her room late at night after she told him not to.

The evidence she provided to back this up were emails expressing her discomfort at staying in someone's home and declaring her intention to get her own hotel room. She also provided the receipt to prove she followed through and booked the hotel room.

But I don't remember anything in writing where the actual withdrawal of consent happened. It may not have happened in writing.

So, the contemporaneous evidence is: (a) emails expressing discomfort at staying in someone's home and (b) a receipt showing she got a hotel room instead of staying in someone's home. Do the emails say why she is uncomfortable staying in someone's home, especially anything that would lead an observer to believe she had withdrawn consent? Also, I would also be curious what Rosebud was saying to John Dehlin before and after this incident. Do those communications indicate that she had withdrawn consent?

All this evidence is so shabby with such unreliable accounts involved. It is starting to hurt my head going over and over all the seemingly contradictory evidence, which isn't even complete anyway.

Let's see if we can get JD back to chime in on this thread, he's always keen to lob us a few smoking guns aimed squarely at his proving his own guilt.

[Kishkumen]

Yeah, he's the idiot who had the affair with an unstable person (female affair partners almost *always* want the man to leave his spouse and are shocked to discover they are not a Very Special Person who warrants that; male affair partners usually want to keep the status quo, this is all so textbook apart from the no-PiV Mormon aspect).

But a decade of bitterness and revenge over an affair that lasted a couple of months seems extreme.

My ex-husband cheated on me with a woman who would later marry a pastor and attempt to go into ministry. You don't see me hounding them all over the Internet.

Yeah. The difference is that you kick ass and take no prisoners. This person has not really found her own strength yet.

[pistolero]

Did the emails directly say that her discomfort was on account of his potential activity with her? If not (Jersey thinking) I would leave this open to the possibility that she thought he might follow her to the hotel.

Okay. I've had enough. Someone needs to give each document an exhibit number and number each line and page so we can easily reference things and be a bit more precise about all of this.

[Fifth Columnist]

All this evidence is so shabby with such unreliable accounts involved. It is starting to hurt my head going over and over all the seemingly contradictory evidence, which isn't even complete anyway.

The accounts are unreliable for sure, which is why I'm focused on contemporaneous evidence.

[The Stig]

Did the emails directly say that her discomfort was on account of his potential activity with her? If not (Jersey thinking) I would leave this open to the possibility that she thought he might follow her to the hotel.

Okay. I've had enough. Someone needs to give each document an exhibit number and number each line and page so we can easily reference things and be a bit more precise about all of this.

In the litigation arena, the index system for each case uses what's called Bates References; Adobe Acrobat has a very easy Bates Reference tool built in....but, the people in charge of those documents haven't shown themselves to be particularly adept at using such tools.

[MsJack]

Consiglieri, I don't know if you're reading this monster of a thread anymore, but I just got done catching up on your podcast and I wanted to compliment you on doing a good job laying out the evidence and treating the subject with compassion and respect. Rosebud's allegations really never sat well with me. She forever seemed to be making vague and amorphous allegations against Dehlin (and derailing dozens of threads that had nothing to do with the subject in the process) but was painfully vague on specifics. Now we know why.

I was sexually harassed by a professor at an evangelical college some number of years ago; I won't name him but if I did, most people on this forum would recognize the name. I talked about it a bit on Instagram here.

I'm also a survivor of infidelity. I had mentioned many times in blog posts that my first husband had made a rather mysterious request for divorce in 2004 (we married in 2003), only to eventually reconcile with me. I learned after our divorce in 2014 that, back in 2004, he was cheating on me and that was the real reason he wanted a divorce. He only got back together with me because the sidechick dumped him.

He developed an obsession with his Mormon co-worker in 2013 (when I was pregnant with Constantine) and had an emotional affair with her. He was driving her around alone in our car to and from work for 3 hours a day (it was 100% out of his way, she did not live near us) and partying with her at Chicago dance clubs on weekends until 6:30 AM the next morning. He actually went so far as to tell me he had prayed about his "friendship" with this woman and God had told him to keep seeing her, so I didn't get any say in the matter. I kept waiting for him to tell me that an angel with a flaming sword had commanded him.

He had a final physical affair with a different woman in 2014, though that was more of an exit affair. There were other happenings (him coming home with scratches all over his back) but I'll never know how many there were or how often he cheated on me.

It's entirely possible that something non-consensual happened at some point in Rosebud's affair with Dehlin. Married women can be raped; affair partners can be sexually assaulted. But she wasn't forthcoming with this community about the nature of her relationship with Dehlin or how, exactly, he harassed/assaulted her. Clearly, she lied to the NHHRC and manipulated the people all around her and now has little credibility.

(I actually got a good laugh out of her claiming Dehlin had violated her privacy by giving the NHHRC the exculpatory text messages. When I caught my ex cheating the final time by checking his phone, he of course immediately began complaining I had violated his privacy by checking his phone. They all play from the same book.)

It's pretty disappointing to me, as a survivor of both sexual harassment and infidelity, that Rosebud spent years trying to convince this community she was a fellow survivor of sexual harassment/assault when it sounds like she was little more than a scorned Other Woman.

Oh well. One chapter of MDB that we can close for good.

[Dr Moore]

It's pretty disappointing to me, as a survivor of both sexual harassment and infidelity, that Rosebud spent years trying to convince this community she was a fellow survivor of sexual harassment/assault when it sounds like she was little more than a scorned Other Woman.

QFT. Her public shaming exercise harms progress for actual abuse victims. Check out her book, which may alternately be titled, “How to Turn Failure Into Victimhood”. It’s the same pattern with Rosebud - blow her own mistakes out of proportion and blame someone besides herself for it. She even mixes in JD references to spice up the stories.

[Kukulkan]

It's pretty disappointing to me, as a survivor of both sexual harassment and infidelity, that Rosebud spent years trying to convince this community she was a fellow survivor of sexual harassment/assault when it sounds like she was little more than a scorned Other Woman.

QFT. Her public shaming exercise harms progress for actual abuse victims. Check out her book, which may alternately be titled, “How to Turn Failure Into Victimhood”. It’s the same pattern with Rosebud - blow her own mistakes out of proportion and blame someone besides herself for it. She even mixes in JD references to spice up the stories.

It is quite literally perplexing reading this. Between the time devoted to writing all of this and money spent on website hosting and other costs she could probably have saved up a nice amount of money. Not to mention devote time to endeavors that will actually help her situation mentally and tangibly. It honestly makes me sad.

[MsJack]

QFT. Her public shaming exercise harms progress for actual abuse victims. Check out her book, which may alternately be titled, “How to Turn Failure Into Victimhood”. It’s the same pattern with Rosebud - blow her own mistakes out of proportion and blame someone besides herself for it. She even mixes in John Dehlin references to spice up the stories.

From that site:

That said, the franchise sued me and all details are available in public court documents and documents I’ve sent to Offices of the Attorneys General, the Department of Justice and the FTC. Plus, I already owe the franchisor $363,00+ dollars so I don’t really see what more harm they can do that they haven’t already done.

I'm sorry, is she saying she owes this franchise $363K?? Would really love to hear more about this lawsuit. (Sorry if it was on this thread and I missed it, I only read the first ~20 pages before commenting.)