5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...

[_SteelHead]

...the discussion of a historical Jesus [is] so thoroughly fleshed out:

1) You pull a Gorman/Mental G and just choose to believe.

Well, it's not quite that simple.

by the way, it's good that that Book of Mormon has been thoroughly discredited/trashed or we'd have to use it as an evidence that Jesus existed.

Regards,
MG

When you can produce the plates of gold from which the Book of Mormon was translated for analysis: dating, linguistic studies, etc., then we can talk about it as a source attesting to a historical Jesus. As we have it today the Book of Mormon provides 0 evidence for a historical Jesus.

[_RedJacket]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you Ceeboo, life is quite complicated right now.

Interesting that you refer to it as a Creator/God. Do you have a particular brand of deity that you're attached to?

Yes - the brand that Created the entire universe.

Is there any particular place where I could find information about the brand that created the universe?

I don't rule out a "God" who has no interest in humanity

Why did you add "who has no interest in humanity?"

You asked me about my personal beliefs and I was just expressing the extent of my belief and lack thereof. The simple answer would be agnostic but with extreme doubts about a personal god.

Am I missing something about this board?

I don't know what you know about this board - so I don't know if you're missing something?

Fair enough. I was just curious because you seemed to be incredulous to the possibility that believers could be speaking to a believing audience on this board. I imagine looking at the responses to this thread that you can find a whole range of opinions here.

If you quoted my whole point it might be a little less confusing. To be christlike is usually defined as being like Christ. Christ had a habit of answering people's questions with questions.

I'm sorry RJ, but this is the first time I have ever heard someone suggest that an example of being Christlike is to answer questions with a question.

I'm borrowing the following from a sermon;

"It turns out that Jesus asks lots of questions, but he doesn’t answer many. According to one source, Jesus asked 307 different questions in the gospels. And Jesus was asked 183 questions. But Jesus only directly answered 3."

It seems that either the writers of the New Testament or the historical man we know as Jesus enjoyed using it as a rhetorical device. So I guess if it is a common attribute attributed to Jesus in the Bible it follows that it would be a Jesus-like attribute.

You find the beliefs of others to be absurd

If you mean someone who believes that there is no Creator/God............then no. I absolutely do not find that to be absurd at all.

If you mean someone who believes they will turn into a red Honda Civic when they reach the age of 20......then yes. I would find that absurd.

What about the turning of water into wine? Or casting evil spirits into swine?

and I'm sure others find your beliefs to be equally absurd.

I'm certain that this is true.

I'm sure on some level we all have our own pet beliefs that others would find ridiculous.

I would say it's obvious you are understandably emotionally involved in this subject.

It's that obvious huh?

Gotta run Red!

Thanks for engaging - I'll check back later and reply if need be.

Peace,
Ceeboo

It's been fun discussing such a heated topic with you Ceeboo.

[_Ceeboo]

Good morning RJ

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you Ceeboo,

No problem, my new friend!

life is quite complicated right now.

I understand.

Best wishes and I hope that these complications (No matter what they might be) are soon resolved and/or eliminated from the road that you find yourself on.

Is there any particular place where I could find information about the brand that created the universe?

Since you asked the question of me:

Yes!
Genesis through Revelation.

Fair enough. I was just curious because you seemed to be incredulous to the possibility that believers could be speaking to a believing audience on this board.

I am unwilling or unable to believe the possibility that believers could be speaking to a believing audience on this board?

I don't think I'm incredulous (perhaps I am?)
I think this is possible - But it would be an extremely rare thing to happen here at the MDB, in my opinion.

What about the turning of water into wine? Or casting evil spirits into swine?

No, I don't find these things absurd - (I realize others do and I fully understand their position)
If, like me, one happens to believe that a Creator/God created the entire universe, it isn't that much of a strain to think he could turn water into wine.

It's been fun discussing such a heated topic with you Ceeboo.

Likewise RJ!

Again, I sincerely wish you and yours all the best as you navigate current (and any future) life complications that come your way.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm borrowing the following from a sermon;

"It turns out that Jesus asks lots of questions, but he doesn’t answer many. According to one source, Jesus asked 307 different questions in the gospels. And Jesus was asked 183 questions. But Jesus only directly answered 3."

It seems that either the writers of the New Testament or the historical man we know as Jesus enjoyed using it as a rhetorical device. So I guess if it is a common attribute attributed to Jesus in the Bible it follows that it would be a Jesus-like attribute.

That's a misrepresentation. Link to the sermon, please.

[_RedJacket]

I understand.

Best wishes and I hope that these complications (No matter what they might be) are soon resolved and/or eliminated from the road that you find yourself on.

Thanks Ceeboo

I think that's one thing that we can all relate to regardless of our beliefs is that the sun rises and sets on the just and the unjust. Life is a complicated business but it's also a lot of fun.

Is there any particular place where I could find information about the brand that created the universe?

Since you asked the question of me:

Yes!
Genesis through Revelation.

Is there any particular denomination you subscribe to or just Christianity in general?

Fair enough. I was just curious because you seemed to be incredulous to the possibility that believers could be speaking to a believing audience on this board.

I am unwilling or unable to believe the possibility that believers could be speaking to a believing audience on this board?

I don't think I'm incredulous (perhaps I am?)
I think this is possible - But it would be an extremely rare thing to happen here at the MDB, in my opinion.

I understand where you're coming from if many of the posters here leave Christianity at the same time they check out of Mormonism. That said I do think it's a natural human tendency to play to and to enjoy the affirmation of like minded people. I have no doubt it plays a part in my communication even when it isn't a conscious choice on my part. An incredulous believer is something of an oxymoron, but I'm sure many of us fit into that camp on various topics.

What about the turning of water into wine? Or casting evil spirits into swine?

No, I don't find these things absurd - (I realize others do and I fully understand their position)
If, like me, one happens to believe that a Creator/God created the entire universe, it isn't that much of a strain to think he could turn water into wine.

Well, you're in good company. There are a lot of people who share your belief in the world.

Again, I sincerely wish you and yours all the best as you navigate current (and any future) life complications that come your way.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Thanks Ceeboo. I didn't mean to make my situation seem worse than it was, just the growing pains of life. Of course, from my perspective, they are the be all and end all but in the scheme of things just a drop in the ocean. I'm looking forward to discussing more with you and I wish you and yours the best too.

[_RedJacket]

I'm borrowing the following from a sermon;

"It turns out that Jesus asks lots of questions, but he doesn’t answer many. According to one source, Jesus asked 307 different questions in the gospels. And Jesus was asked 183 questions. But Jesus only directly answered 3."

It seems that either the writers of the New Testament or the historical man we know as Jesus enjoyed using it as a rhetorical device. So I guess if it is a common attribute attributed to Jesus in the Bible it follows that it would be a Jesus-like attribute.

That's a misrepresentation. Link to the sermon, please.

The sermon actually linked to a source book called, "Jesus Is the Question: The 307 Questions Jesus Asked and the 3 He Answered".

The blurb on Amazon contains the following description:

Contrary to some common assumptions, Jesus is not the ultimate Answer Man, but more like the Great Questioner. In the Gospels Jesus asks many more questions than he answers. To be precise, Jesus asks 307 questions. He is asked 183 of which he only answers 3. Asking questions was central to Jesus’ life and teachings. In fact, for every question he answers directly he asks—literally—a hundred.

The book is written by Rev. Martin B. Copenhaver a magna cum laude graduate of Dickinson College who received his M.Div. from Yale Divinity School in 1980. I don't know what your credentials are in religious studies but he seems to know what he's talking about in terms of the subject he's talking about.

Why do you think it's a misrepresentation?

[_Jersey Girl]

Hello RJ,

Is this an example of what you're talking about?

http://www.ucc.org/feed-your-spirit_daily-devotional_jesus-is-the-question

Won't be back for a while, so no hurry.

[_RedJacket]

Hello RJ,

Is this an example of what you're talking about?

http://www.ucc.org/feed-your-spirit_daily-devotional_jesus-is-the-question

Won't be back for a while, so no hurry.

Same author as I quoted above. I guess I'm just curious about why you find it to be a misrepresentation?

[_Jersey Girl]

Hello RJ,

Is this an example of what you're talking about?

http://www.ucc.org/feed-your-spirit_daily-devotional_jesus-is-the-question

Won't be back for a while, so no hurry.

Same author as I quoted above. I guess I'm just curious about why you find it to be a misrepresentation?

I think it's oddly presented. It sort of makes it look like Jesus never answered the question that was posed. What do you think about that?

[_RedJacket]

I think it's oddly presented. It sort of makes it look like Jesus never answered the question that was posed. What do you think about that?

Jesus from reading the Bible seemed to enjoy not answering questions, answering questions with questions or by responding with a parable that while providing a response doesn't really answer the question asked.

It's actually a trait of people regarded as moral, religious or philosophical teachers. It can also be extremely frustrating in a conversation