Quasimodo wrote:It's not surprising that you find it impossible to always act in the same way you guess Jesus might have done. I don't think any Christian is able to pull that one off. If it's any consolation, you are in very good company. The rest of humanity.
In my belief system I do not believe we must believe any one thing. We don't need any beliefs at all.
The reason I post my beliefs is so others can challenge it. I believe that if what I think is true is actually true then no argument should be able to poke holes in it. I am on a quest for truth and if I stop questioning my own beliefs I can not move forward.
I will add that if I was exposed to my belief system at the beginning of my quest I would have rejected it as crazy. It was just to far away from orthodoxy for me to accept. I would have had to jump to far. I needed all of those small steps to get me here.
As far as following Christ I have not met a person who acts like Christ 24/7. But I have met many people who call themselves Christian.
LittleNipper wrote:The genealogy in the Bible is for the purpose of tracing the linage to Jesus Christ.
Yes. Those responsible for making "Christianity" look like a legitimate religion needed to include genealogy of the real Jewish man upon whose teachings it was being created. Since the Jews were obsessed with genealogy, the creators of Christianity needed to include Jesus' lineage---regardless of whether or not it was true or accurate. I think they did a lot of things to create a religion which could more easily be accepted by the people in order for them to gain control over their minds and hearts. Religion has always been about control over those who can be convinced to believe in it.
Since originally there was no canon being followed by the people who heard about the teachings of Christ, and since Jesus never wrote any of His teachings down, it was easier for the powers that be to accomplish the task for which they had been gathering.
Also, if one studies pre-Christian "religions" which are now considered to be myth, they will be able to identify lots of similarities. Those similarities were necessary so that those who wanted to gain control over the pre-existing beliefs of the people could sway them. The elements needed to be included. All of those things were soon part of the traditions of "Christian" beliefs being taught; even including and controling the interpretations of the "scriptures" which they had put together which became canon.
Please realize that there exists no safety in numbers when it comes to biblical inerrancy. The Bible repeatedly warns against following the broad path taken by the majority. Many people today are simply seeking excuses to cover their bad choices and behavior patterns. One of the issues with Mormonism is the fostered notion that important information was lost and that the Bible was corrupted. In these "latter" times, many have used such excuses to claim that the Bible is seriously flawed and that sins revealed within that text have been misinterpreted.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
If baptism for the dead (and all of the other vicarious ordinances for the dead) were of such great importance, might one not expect that Jesus, after being baptised for himself (to fulfill all righteousness) would then have made a point of having it recorded that he was also baptised for dead people?
I suppose it could be argued (and some no doubt will so argue) that this is one of the "plain & precious truths" that were removed from the Bible by evil and conspiring men.
However, since the Book of Mormon is supposed to be another testament of Jesus, and contains several near duplicates of Bible stories, one might expect the "missing" story to be re-introduced in the Book of Mormon.
I find its absence to be evidence (evidence only, not proof!) that there was no such vital doctrine or practice in Jesus' time as baptism (etc) for the dead, and that perhaps the only reason for the modern practice is a possibly-misunderstood condemnation of a pagan practice.
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
malkie wrote:All of the "WWJD" talk makes me wonder:
If baptism for the dead (and all of the other vicarious ordinances for the dead) were of such great importance, might one not expect that Jesus, after being baptised for himself (to fulfill all righteousness) would then have made a point of having it recorded that he was also baptised for dead people?
Since the people whom Jesus was teaching believed in baptism, He was most likely baptized (if indeed He really was baptized) in order to gain some credibility in the eyes of the people. In other words, by participating in a ritual they believed in, He would have at least been able to get the people to begin listening to His message. They believed that baptism was a "righteous" thing to do; hence by being baptized, Jesus fulfilled the requirement for being a "righteous" man.
I agree that if it HAD been important, then surely He would have shown by example that baptism for the dead was necessary. There is zero evidence He ever participated in baptisms for the dead.
I suppose it could be argued (and some no doubt will so argue) that this is one of the "plain & precious truths" that were removed from the Bible by evil and conspiring men.
However, since the Book of Mormon is supposed to be another testament of Jesus, and contains several near duplicates of Bible stories, one might expect the "missing" story to be re-introduced in the Book of Mormon.
I find its absence to be evidence (evidence only, not proof!) that there was no such vital doctrine or practice in Jesus' time as baptism (etc) for the dead, and that perhaps the only reason for the modern practice is a possibly-misunderstood condemnation of a pagan practice.
1 Nephi 6:1 And now I, Nephi, do not give the genealogy of my fathers in this part of my record; neither at any time shall I give it after upon these plates which I am writing; for it is given in the record which has been kept by my father; wherefore, I do not write it in this work.
This decision not to include a long list of begats is our loss. Imagine the fun which we could have been had with all those inventive names.
I happened across another passage in the Bible which talks of genealogy; and it denounces it:
1Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
I also find it interesting that in the New Testament there were references to Jewish beliefs which teach us that those beliefs were fables. Paying close attention to Titus 1:14, we can see that Jewish fables AND the commandments of men are both mentioned together in the same sentence!! Inasmuch as Christians kept Jewish beliefs AND the commandments of men which had been a part of Jewish canon in their own canon (they certainly did not remove the commandments of men that had been taught in Jewish canon), it would appear that Christians now also believe in those same fables:
"1Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."
and
"Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth."
and
"2Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty."
This appears to be more evidence that Christ did NOT teach religion. It was due to His dislike of the religion of the Jews (which included both their fables and their commandments of men); and in particular, His disgust with Jewish religious leaders, which eventually got Him killed.
A huge WOW is how it is that the religion of the Jews, which has become merely updated by the addition to their canon of the New Testament books, which has now become the religion of Christianity actually turns us from the truth (once again, see Titus 1:14)!!! In other words, religion (which is apparently made up of "cunningly devised fables", as well as the commandments of men) turns us AWAY from truth---NOT toward truth!!!
moksha wrote:Don't give up hope, there are still the sealed volumes which may someday be printed.
I did an image search for the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon images on yahoo. Take a guess who has scrubbed the image from their church site? Can anyone tell me why it is that the one place that should be the central search vehicle is no longer even looking? I would think that a living prophet would love the opportunity to demonstrate to the world that the church has received the sealed portion.