proverbs 2:1-5

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_Themis
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _Themis »

Luke346 wrote:Dodging is not in my nature brother, unless we are actually playing dodgeball, which we are not....

Lets say we are driving around and discussing this topic....and suddenly it feels like you just drove onto the arctic circle in a convertible with your shirt off...and the next thing that registers in your mind is the sign you are just about to pass that reads 'God loves you'....

This is how the personal signs work, where i were next to you and didn't feel a thing, nor saw anything...i is spiritually dead.... Believe me, there is much more to dodge than this...


Sure you had some special sensations and then started the process of interpreting them with your world view in mind. People do this all time. To bad they cannot get along.
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_Luke346
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _Luke346 »

People either choose to stay 'in the world mentality' or they choose to figure it out...i assumed people here were serious about the latter...i may be wrong about here...

But the collective lack of figuring it out is why people can't, wont get along...
_jo1952
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _jo1952 »

There is a rule which demands that those inside of mortality MUST be seeking truth with earnestness in order to find it (truth). Seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you. If we are not seeking truth sincerely, with a broken heart, and a contrite spirit, then all we will find is the world's version of truth. But the world's ways are not God's ways. Unfortunately, it is the world's ways that we follow. That's because it is the world that has been teaching us since our physical birth. This teaching by the world is also known as the traditions of our fathers. Thus, in order to find real truth, we must give up what the world has taught us, and seek for truth on our own. If we listen to outside sources in our quest, all we will find is what the arm of flesh has to offer. So it is that we should "pray" in private...in a closet, so to speak.

Welcome to this board!
_Franktalk
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _Franktalk »

We do have a greater spirit but it is on the other side of the veil. So in the best of environments the most we can hope for is a small voice or promptings. A sign is not going to happen. Anything that happens to one of us happens to all of us. So you may receive personal promptings from your own spirit but they did not come from God. God treats us all the same He does not have favorites.

Instead of looking outward for signs of God an inward search to contact your own spirit who already knows God is way more productive.
_Themis
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _Themis »

Luke346 wrote:People either choose to stay 'in the world mentality' or they choose to figure it out...i assumed people here were serious about the latter...i may be wrong about here...

But the collective lack of figuring it out is why people can't, wont get along...


You haven't given any ways to really figure it or anything out. All you do is the same as the last two posters. You make up what ever pops into your head. That's not figuring anything out. It's just making things up that you want. I can do the same if I choose to, but why waste time making things up? Better to actually look for how things are. You three are certainly not looking for any truth.

The three of you would not last long in a room together before you broke out arguing about each's idea of what some real truth is.
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_Luke346
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _Luke346 »

Franktalk wrote:We do have a greater spirit but it is on the other side of the veil. So in the best of environments the most we can hope for is a small voice or promptings. A sign is not going to happen. Anything that happens to one of us happens to all of us. So you may receive personal promptings from your own spirit but they did not come from God. God treats us all the same He does not have favorites.

Instead of looking outward for signs of God an inward search to contact your own spirit who already knows God is way more productive.



I don't want to aggravate anyone, my soul hurts when yours does, its part of the growth package, but i would be amiss not to say that your statements are totally in the matrix...there is scripture in kings i think where two kings ask another king to ask God if they should go to war and what did God say..?

If it were not for him, i would not be talking to you...

Now if that is not respect for an individual, then i don't understand the word...

Maybe God loves everyone equally, but He definitely pays more attention to the ones doing His will...

Maybe noone here is a romans 8:29 and no matter how many seeds get planted, water is not coming...i just wish you were here, the view is unbelievable...


So what is everyone here afraid of that's keeping the veils over your eyes...
honestly.

Yes, search inward is imperative, but don't neglect the christlike thoughts and actions that we come into contact every day from many good and honest people out there...its all parts of the Realationship with Father and His first begotten...

And if you listen very hard...
The tune will come to you atlast...
When all is one...and one is all...
To be a rock...and not to roll...

Stairway to heaven
_Luke346
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _Luke346 »

Can anyone here look back on their life and see where they were afraid of something or didn't understand something and are a better person now because they have learned or shed their fear of...?

If yes, you are becoming more christlike..you just have to someday incorporate the relationship into this or no matter how mature you get, you will hit a wall...

This is the mustard seed becoming a tree, just takes time, that's all...
_jo1952
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _jo1952 »

Luke346 wrote:
I don't want to aggravate anyone, my soul hurts when yours does, its part of the growth package, but i would be amiss not to say that your statements are totally in the matrix...there is scripture in kings i think where two kings ask another king to ask God if they should go to war and what did God say..?


There are many stories and narratives in the Old Testament which do NOT follow the teachings of Christ. Even the Law of Moses is filled with contradictions, which, to me, indicate that the Law was given by man and not by God. For instance, "Thou shalt not kill"; but the Law also gave instructions for the Jews to kill. We can see where Moses gave the people Law only AFTER they refused to meet with the Lord; asking Moses to go in their place.

Then, we see in Isaiah how the very religion and the trappings of religion held to by the Jews was an abomination to the Lord:

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.


When I recognized what Isaiah was saying, I started to pay more attention to the words of other Prophets in the Old Testament, rather than to the stories and narratives and genealogies. THEN, I started to compare their words with the words of our Christ. Things started to make a lot more sense.

I began to compare everything that is in the Old Testament with the words of Christ. That is when I saw that most of the Old Testament did NOT match the teachings of Christ. I now sort out the bits and pieces of what I believe is the truth recorded in the Old Testament. The rest gets discarded as the vain imaginations of men and the commandments of men.

I was raised Lutheran, converted to the LDS church back in 1974, but continued my search for truth---never being quite satisfied with what any religion was offering. In the recent seven or eight years, that seeking became very intense, both on bended knee, and in researching and studying religious history, canon, various world religions, etc.

I now believe that Prophets came to people AFTER they were already steeped in a religious belief system. Their messages frequently got them killed; even Christ was killed because of how His teachings offended the religious leaders of the Jews. That is when I saw that Christ was NOT teaching a religion at all. However, because He was teaching to a people of religion, He used their terminology--not with the purpose of condoning their religion--but in order to try to get them to understand the message He delivered.

That is when I also saw how it was that most religious people, especially those who use the name of Christ---i.e., "Christians", were taking His name upon themselves in vain. Once I realized that Christ never taught religion, but rather, a "way" of living in mortality, I walked away and abandoned religion altogether.

My seeking brought me down a quite astonishing path to "real truth"; one which I can now see Christ was giving clues and hints about. That real truth is now available to everyone on the earth. Actually, it has always been inside of each of us all along. That is why Christ pointed out that the kingdom of God is within. By looking within is how we can begin to understand what the kingdom of God IS. It is awesome; but it has always been rejected by the "god" of this world...the "god" who has dominion over this earth (In other words, us...our carnal/natural man self---who is an enemy to God---the divine self in us!). It is only when we are in-tuned with the "Holy Spirit" (to continue to use the vernacular of religion)...which is ONLY accomplished by earnestly seeking, with humility, a broken heart, and a contrite spirit...that we are even able to see, hear, and even accept the real truth about who we are, why we are here, and what is really going on inside of mortality. Once we get better and better at listening to the Holy Spirit, we can see and hear more and more. Christ spoke about how the only blasphemy we should be concerned with is that against the Holy Spirit. Even blasphemy against Him, i.e., the Lord, could be "forgiven"; but not the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Christ was speaking a very profound truth!! Remember, He was still teaching in accordance with the belief system of Jews. As such, He used their terminology; but He was using those terms symbolically.

So what is everyone here afraid of that's keeping the veils over your eyes...
honestly.


What keeps the veil over our eyes is our mortal body of flesh. While our spirit is still in this temple of flesh it is impossible to "see" beyond the veil. However, the Holy Spirit can help us to be lead to truth--the truth about what is beyond the veil---though still from the position of faith. In other words, we simply cannot KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt while still in a mortal body.

Remember how, at the moment of Christ's death, the "veil" in the "holy of holies" was rent? That was symbolic of teaching us that upon physical death, there is no more veil. It is another way of saying that while in the flesh, there is a veil; it is only after death that there is no veil. (At least for now...once Christ returns to govern the earth, we will enter the next phase and purpose of living inside of mortality.)

Yes, search inward is imperative, but don't neglect the christlike thoughts and actions that we come into contact every day from many good and honest people out there...its all parts of the Realationship with Father and His first begotten...


John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


Christ is teaching us WHO the Father IS!! It is the "Holy Spirit" who leads us to this truth about who the Father is. It is only when we no longer listen to what the world teaches us about "God", "god", "Holy Spirit", "heaven", "hell", "sin", "salvation", etc., that our minds will be able to accept what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us. Meanwhile, by listening to what the world would have us believe about "God", "god", "Holy Spirit", "heaven", "hell", "sin", "salvation", etc., we blaspheme/deny the "Holy Spirit". Once we figure it out, then we have manifested no longer blaspheming/denying the "Holy Spirit". Religion leads us away from truth; not toward it. That's why religion is such an abomination to the Lord.

Now, we are allowed to believe anything we want to believe. It is the world which teaches the concept of "sin". The Jews had "sin" nicely wrapped up inside of their Law. Where we believe there is "sin", then that is where we also see the need for "forgiveness". Christ told us it is blasphemy/denial of the Holy Spirit of which we cannot be forgiven. THINK!!! Think what He was trying to get us to understand!! Meanwhile, Christ taught that He had fulfilled the Law; In other words, He released us from the burden of "sin". The only way to be released from that burden is to see and hear what He was teaching. If you still believe that you "sin" and need His or Father's forgiveness, then you are still living inside of "sin"/"Law"---which He told you He has fulfilled---then you are still denying the Holy Spirit! He taught in such a way as to not interfere with the free will of the people. Only those who have the eyes to see and ears to hear actually understand Him; and they will be the ones who will accept who the Father is. THAT is when we can be one with the Father and with the Son (and with the Holy Spirit)!! He allowed the people to continue to live their religion; He allowed them to continue to use their free will. However, if they chose on their own to "follow" Him (to get in touch with the spirit of Christ/the spirit of truth inside of them), they could be released from the burden of "sin". It's absolutely amazing; though NOT how Christianity interprets His teachings!

Unfortunately, "Christianity" rose up after His death and became yet another "religion". The early "church fathers" were very clever...they were really those who wanted to be able to use "religion" just as religion had always been used....to gain control over the minds and the hearts of anyone they could convince to listen to their version of "God", "god", "Holy Spirit", "heaven", "hell", "sin", "salvation", etc. They used the teachings of Christ to create one of the most powerful religions the world has ever known; i.e., "Christianity".
_jo1952
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _jo1952 »

Luke346 wrote:Can anyone here look back on their life and see where they were afraid of something or didn't understand something and are a better person now because they have learned or shed their fear of...?

If yes, you are becoming more christlike..you just have to someday incorporate the relationship into this or no matter how mature you get, you will hit a wall...

This is the mustard seed becoming a tree, just takes time, that's all...


You are speaking of the "spirit of Christ", a.k.a., the "spirit of truth" which already exists in each of us. I used to confuse the changes I made in my efforts to be more "Christlike" as being accomplished by Christ. However, there is a huge difference between Christ and the "spirit of Christ"/"spirit of truth". I am the one who made the changes; Christ didn't make them for me. I made the changes because I was listening the "spirit of Christ"/"spirit of truth"; In other words, I was listening to the divine in me...tapping into what the Holy Spirit was teaching me, by denying the natural/god of this world self. Remember that He told us to pick up our own cross; He did NOT say He would pick up our cross for us.

It is part of the religion of Christianity which tries to teach us that Christ is the one who does this work. Christianity habitually denies the words of Christ; having built up its own interpretations in order to allow those who claim to be speaking for Christ and/or "God" to maintain their power over the hearts and minds of the people.

Matthew 16:24 ¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

When He said, "let him deny himself", Christ was speaking about the natural man/the god of this world self. He was also very clear in that we need to pick up our own cross.

Have you recognized the following?

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.


Christ spoke those words BEFORE His crucifixion!!!!! The "WORK" which "Father" (again, WHO is the Father??) was Christ's giving us the words which Father had given Him to teach to us!!! Now note that Christ is telling us that in having given us those words, His work was FINISHED!!

Christianity is hard pressed to then explain their interpretation of Christ's WORK by denying Christ's very words. Instead, Christianity looks to the cross (remember, that we are to carry our own cross...we will also experience physical death and complete the purpose for mortality) as representing the finishing of Christ's work. In fact, Christiaity teaches that that is where Christ completed His most important work. By pointing to the words Christ spoke on the cross, "it is finished", they ignore that Christ said NOTHING about His "WORK" in those words. Christianity ignores that Christ told us His WORK had already been finished once He had divered the words which the Father has instructed Him to deliver!!!! When Christ said, "it is finished", He was speaking about His mortal life. To believe that He meant something else, would be to call Him a liar when He spoke earlier about having already finished His work. This is very difficult for "Christians" to even hear; they are so indoctrinated by what the religion of Christianity has taught them to believe about their own Christ.
_Luke346
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Re: proverbs 2:1-5

Post by _Luke346 »

This above scripture is all nazarene talk...cuz they know, the real ones that is, that its internal maturification, but they still have the ego and pride that keeps them away from the real relationship that coud be if they just gave in....

your not going to fool Him, He knows where your heart is at...
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