Luke346 wrote:
I don't want to aggravate anyone, my soul hurts when yours does, its part of the growth package, but i would be amiss not to say that your statements are totally in the matrix...there is scripture in kings i think where two kings ask another king to ask God if they should go to war and what did God say..?
There are many stories and narratives in the Old Testament which do NOT follow the teachings of Christ. Even the Law of Moses is filled with contradictions, which, to me, indicate that the Law was given by man and not by God. For instance, "Thou shalt not kill"; but the Law also gave instructions for the Jews to kill. We can see where Moses gave the people Law only AFTER they refused to meet with the Lord; asking Moses to go in their place.
Then, we see in Isaiah how the very religion and the trappings of religion held to by the Jews was an abomination to the Lord:
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.When I recognized what Isaiah was saying, I started to pay more attention to the words of other Prophets in the Old Testament, rather than to the stories and narratives and genealogies. THEN, I started to compare their words with the words of our Christ. Things started to make a lot more sense.
I began to compare everything that is in the Old Testament with the words of Christ. That is when I saw that most of the Old Testament did NOT match the teachings of Christ. I now sort out the bits and pieces of what I believe is the truth recorded in the Old Testament. The rest gets discarded as the vain imaginations of men and the commandments of men.
I was raised Lutheran, converted to the LDS church back in 1974, but continued my search for truth---never being quite satisfied with what any religion was offering. In the recent seven or eight years, that seeking became very intense, both on bended knee, and in researching and studying religious history, canon, various world religions, etc.
I now believe that Prophets came to people AFTER they were already steeped in a religious belief system. Their messages frequently got them killed; even Christ was killed because of how His teachings offended the religious leaders of the Jews. That is when I saw that Christ was NOT teaching a religion at all. However, because He was teaching to a people of religion, He used their terminology--not with the purpose of condoning their religion--but in order to try to get them to understand the message He delivered.
That is when I also saw how it was that most religious people, especially those who use the name of Christ---i.e., "Christians", were taking His name upon themselves in vain. Once I realized that Christ never taught religion, but rather, a "way" of living in mortality, I walked away and abandoned religion altogether.
My seeking brought me down a quite astonishing path to "real truth"; one which I can now see Christ was giving clues and hints about. That real truth is now available to everyone on the earth. Actually, it has always been inside of each of us all along. That is why Christ pointed out that the kingdom of God is within. By looking within is how we can begin to understand what the kingdom of God IS. It is awesome; but it has always been rejected by the "god" of this world...the "god" who has dominion over this earth (In other words, us...our carnal/natural man self---who is an enemy to God---the divine self in us!). It is only when we are in-tuned with the "Holy Spirit" (to continue to use the vernacular of religion)...which is ONLY accomplished by earnestly seeking, with humility, a broken heart, and a contrite spirit...that we are even able to see, hear, and even accept the real truth about who we are, why we are here, and what is really going on inside of mortality. Once we get better and better at listening to the Holy Spirit, we can see and hear more and more. Christ spoke about how the only blasphemy we should be concerned with is that against the Holy Spirit. Even blasphemy against Him, i.e., the Lord, could be "forgiven"; but not the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Christ was speaking a very profound truth!! Remember, He was still teaching in accordance with the belief system of Jews. As such, He used their terminology; but He was using those terms symbolically.
So what is everyone here afraid of that's keeping the veils over your eyes...
honestly.
What keeps the veil over our eyes is our mortal body of flesh. While our spirit is still in this temple of flesh it is impossible to "see" beyond the veil. However, the Holy Spirit can help us to be lead to truth--the truth about what is beyond the veil---though still from the position of faith. In other words, we simply cannot KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt while still in a mortal body.
Remember how, at the moment of Christ's death, the "veil" in the "holy of holies" was rent? That was symbolic of teaching us that upon physical death, there is no more veil. It is another way of saying that while in the flesh, there is a veil; it is only after death that there is no veil. (At least for now...once Christ returns to govern the earth, we will enter the next phase and purpose of living inside of mortality.)
Yes, search inward is imperative, but don't neglect the christlike thoughts and actions that we come into contact every day from many good and honest people out there...its all parts of the Realationship with Father and His first begotten...
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.Christ is teaching us WHO the Father IS!! It is the "Holy Spirit" who leads us to this truth about who the Father is. It is only when we no longer listen to what the world teaches us about "God", "god", "Holy Spirit", "heaven", "hell", "sin", "salvation", etc., that our minds will be able to accept what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us. Meanwhile, by listening to what the world would have us believe about "God", "god", "Holy Spirit", "heaven", "hell", "sin", "salvation", etc., we blaspheme/deny the "Holy Spirit". Once we figure it out, then we have manifested no longer blaspheming/denying the "Holy Spirit". Religion leads us away from truth; not toward it. That's why religion is such an abomination to the Lord.
Now, we are allowed to believe anything we want to believe. It is the world which teaches the concept of "sin". The Jews had "sin" nicely wrapped up inside of their Law. Where we believe there is "sin", then that is where we also see the need for "forgiveness". Christ told us it is blasphemy/denial of the Holy Spirit of which we cannot be forgiven. THINK!!! Think what He was trying to get us to understand!! Meanwhile, Christ taught that He had fulfilled the Law; In other words, He released us from the burden of "sin". The only way to be released from that burden is to see and hear what He was teaching. If you still believe that you "sin" and need His or Father's forgiveness, then you are still living inside of "sin"/"Law"---which He told you He has fulfilled---then you are still denying the Holy Spirit! He taught in such a way as to not interfere with the free will of the people. Only those who have the eyes to see and ears to hear actually understand Him; and
they will be the ones who will accept who the Father is. THAT is when we can be one with the Father and with the Son (and with the Holy Spirit)!! He allowed the people to continue to live their religion; He allowed them to continue to use their free will. However, if they chose on their own to "follow" Him (to get in touch with the spirit of Christ/the spirit of truth inside of them), they could be released from the burden of "sin". It's absolutely amazing; though NOT how Christianity interprets His teachings!
Unfortunately, "Christianity" rose up after His death and became yet another "religion". The early "church fathers" were very clever...they were really those who wanted to be able to use "religion" just as religion had always been used....to gain control over the minds and the hearts of anyone they could convince to listen to their version of "God", "god", "Holy Spirit", "heaven", "hell", "sin", "salvation", etc. They used the teachings of Christ to create one of the most powerful religions the world has ever known; i.e., "Christianity".