questions

[_subgenius]

Choyo,
It is good you are being cautious, studying it out.
Mormonism is a cult, in good ways - sense of community, and bad ways - demanding of your time, money & soul.

nice assertions, but they seem to be just opinions founded on anecdotes and not based on actual facts.

The main 2 problems with the church (& missionaries will probably be clueless) are:

1) Financial corruption. Church charges a lot for worthine$$.

again, opinion...no facts offered.

And they charge & spend incorrectly, counter to scripture.

CFR

Tithes are supposed to be based on increase, but church charges based on income.

The church has never charged me nor any member that I have known of.

This is wrong because:
Imagine 2 men earn the same income amount.
1 man is the sole provider of a family of 7 & after paying basic bills, has no increase left.
The 2nd man has all of his bills paid by his parents, so all his income is increase.
The church charges the same amount for each man & that is antiChrist & contributes to poverty.

nice examples but everything you describe here is not actual church policy nor church practice.
(can you provide Biblical reference for your definition of "increase"?)

The church also does not obey the law of tithing (Deut. 14:28-29) that instructs leaders to share 1/3 of tithes with the poor. Although the LDS church keeps money secret, Elder Oaks did admit that NO tithes go to the poor.

Law of Tithing? like Leviticus 27:30-33 the Mosaic law you reference does not direct how tithing is to be spent/distributed.
But
it seems more appropriate to reference the Mormon, or LDS, scripture that is considered the "Law of Tithing"...and that scripture is Alma 13:15
"And it was this same Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes; yea, even our father Abraham paid tithes of one-tenth part of all he possessed."

2) Cognitive distortions are taught in church, which contribute to mental illness. Utah, predominantly LDS, leads the nation in anti-depressants.

you are trying to confuse causation and correlation...which is ironic given your topic of "cognitive distortion".

There is a list online of common cognitive distortions, but a most obvious one in church is polarized (bi-polar) thinking: "You are either on the Lord's side or Satan's side." In reality, we're on both - one more than the other, depending on the moment.

You are confused. It is completely possible to be on either side....your attempt to blur the line between the two sides as a matter of convenience and justification for your own life does not constitute "reality". Being on the Lord's side does not inherently guarantee one a perfect ability in thought and deed. This rather speaks to one's conscious efforts - so even with consideration for your position it remains impossible to simultaneously "be" on both sides at any given moment for any given action...thus, the notion of "more on this side" does not exist except as a protracted measure.

Bi-polar thinking on any subject is inescapable (as you will demonstrate by your response to this statement).

[_Amore]

Hi Subgenius :)
I suppose there are multiple ways to look at anything and we tend to see what we look for (biases).

You seem to see great value in most if not all aspects of the church, defending it, no matter what obvious evil it teaches or engages in.
By "church" I'm mostly referring to the top (paid) leadership.

There is no need to site references about financial corruption.
The shopping malls built (& many other "worldly" greedy pursuits) using funds gathered in the name of Jesus Christ, are obvious.
And it is obvious that the higher law is to love and care for those who are suffering and that tithes are intended (at least in part) to help the poor.
Although church finances are kept secret, Oaks admitted no tithes go to those in need.

Getting back to OP...
Questions for all: Is there a herd mentality on earth that does not have some insanity?
How to enjoy team spirit (of various groups) without loyally adhering to them or their corrupt ideologies & without prioritizing false gods?

[_Tobin]

I pretty much agree with Amore. The LDS Church is demonstrably a man-made institution led by fallible men. And the fact is that tithes are not used directly to help the poor and needy. Tthe finances of the LDS Church are a secret and that can never be a good thing. It presents opportunity for leaders of the LDS Church to enrich themselves or mismanage the funds they receive. It also causes suspicion about their activities.

[_madeleine]

Here is a question you can ask; but it could also be asked of ANY church:

Christianity teaches that Christ has already redeemed us. However, this disagrees with what Christ said:

Luke 21:25 ¶And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

In other words, even AFTER Christ returns in power and glory, redemption is only near....it is NOT yet. As such, it would seem that what Christianity teaches and what Christ actually said about the timing of "redemption" are NOT in agreement. That means that what "redemption" means to Christianity may be completely different than what Christ was talking about.

There is cognative dissonance inside of ALL religions.

Mainstream Christianity teaches that the Kingdom of God is here now, but not fully realized. Often expressed as "already here, but not yet". I've heard the analogy of an expectant mother, whose child is already here in the world, but not yet fully in the world.

Redemption was given to us on the Cross. What we are redeemed from, in Christian theology, is sin and death. This too is an already, not yet, reality. We are redeemed, now, but our redemption is fulfilled after the final judgement.

At the signs of the returning of Christ, and he is first seen in His glory, the fulfillment of our redemption is closest at hand. It is this sign that our redemption is about to be fulfilled. The final judgement, followed by eternal life for the righteous, in the presence of God. His Kingdom fulfilled, in Jesus Christ. No longer of the "not yet", but fulfilled.

Jesus never came as a political leader, which, was one of the reasons that he was rejected by many (if not most) of the Jews. They expected a might King, who would conquer the enemies of the People of God. Jesus turned this idea on its head, and showed that he conquered by love and sacrifice.

[_subgenius]

Hi Subgenius :)
I suppose there are multiple ways to look at anything and we tend to see what we look for (biases).

Ah Amore! ;) you may suppose as such, but things can actually only be seen one way - no matter your subscribed doctrine. Now certainly there are multiple ways to imagine things but that does not change the object of such a "thing". Bias is merely a polite label for "wrong".

You seem to see great value in most if not all aspects of the church, defending it, no matter what obvious evil it teaches or engages in.
By "church" I'm mostly referring to the top (paid) leadership.

I would appreciate an example of an "obvious evil" that is being taught.

There is no need to site references about financial corruption.

Because they can only be offered subjectively, and that is not proof of anything - except for "bias".

The shopping malls built (& many other "worldly" greedy pursuits) using funds gathered in the name of Jesus Christ, are obvious.

a rather shallow and, again, subjective position on the mall. Would you disagree that a mall has the ability to employ the unemployed? stabilize a community? generate revenue for a city to ease tax burdens? keep costs competitive in a market?...etc.

And it is obvious that the higher law is to love and care for those who are suffering and that tithes are intended (at least in part) to help the poor.

Teach man to fish as it were...or is a community of soup kitchens the only means to help "everyone"?
As with the Lord is not any and all who "come unto" receiving help? Who in any community is not able to receive food, shelter, warmth, and love if the only "come unto" it?
Did Jesus knock on every door?

Although church finances are kept secret, Oaks admitted no tithes go to those in need.

huh?

Getting back to OP...
Questions for all: Is there a herd mentality on earth that does not have some insanity?
How to enjoy team spirit (of various groups) without loyally adhering to them or their corrupt ideologies & without prioritizing false gods?

"Herd mentality" is by definition distinct from a "lone mentality" and either of these conditions can appear as having some insanity when "viewed" from the other condition. Yet, as stated above it is an error to consider these different perspectives as being just "a way" to see something.

on a tangent...i have never been confused about the mentality of my heart and the mentality of my hand - how the former goes on without me while the latter sits and waits for me.

[_Amore]

Ah Amore! ;) you may suppose as such, but things can actually only be seen one way - no matter your subscribed doctrine. Now certainly there are multiple ways to imagine things but that does not change the object of such a "thing". Bias is merely a polite label for "wrong".

Ah, Subgenius!
Truth is in perspective.
Truth is that which causes influence - for good or bad - particularly the point of view one decides to take.

I would appreciate an example of an "obvious evil" that is being taught.

First, please remember, I'm not your complete enemy - I agree with you on a lot.
I see a lot of good in church, otherwise I wouldn't attend and serve as I do.
However, the evil is in financial corruption - basically mind control that one must pay money to a organization that has no financial integrity, in order to be considered "celestially worthy."
There are countless cognitive distortions taught (esp. bi-polar thinking), but I think we've discussed them before.

Because they can only be offered subjectively, and that is not proof of anything - except for "bias".

You are correct, that my assumption that finances are NOT handled correctly are partly subjective, because one could only guess how finances are handled, since they are kept dark and secret.

a rather shallow and, again, subjective position on the mall. Would you disagree that a mall has the ability to employ the unemployed? stabilize a community? generate revenue for a city to ease tax burdens? keep costs competitive in a market?...etc.

That's not the responsibility of a "church of Jesus Christ."
According to Jesus, the priority is to love others - that is loving God - in particular, those who are in need.
See parable of good Samaritan, among other scriptures.

Teach man to fish as it were...or is a community of soup kitchens the only means to help "everyone"?
As with the Lord is not any and all who "come unto" receiving help? Who in any community is not able to receive food, shelter, warmth, and love if the only "come unto" it?
Did Jesus knock on every door?

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not suggesting American (relatively rich) poverty.
I'm suggesting the poor, who are DYING of starvation or lack of basic needs (clean water, medicine).

Deut 14:28-29 (& in other places in scripture that LDS supposedly adhere to) state that tithes collected are to be given to those in need (at least 1/3 to be exact).
Dallin Oaks said that tithes do NOT go for charity, but members need to pay extra for that.
That is clearly wrong.

Another consideration is that back in the day, religion and government were not separate as they are now, so tithes back then were likely not only for religious purposes, but also for government necessities (tax).

Subgenius, you know in your heart of hearts, ld$ finances are run in ways that are not Christ-like.
So, I wonder, if you knew of something evil of the church, would you not acknowledge it as evil, or would you turn a blind eye? And why?

"Herd mentality" is by definition distinct from a "lone mentality" and either of these conditions can appear as having some insanity when "viewed" from the other condition. Yet, as stated above it is an error to consider these different perspectives as being just "a way" to see something.

on a tangent...i have never been confused about the mentality of my heart and the mentality of my hand - how the former goes on without me while the latter sits and waits for me.

What do you mean?
Do you claim to have access to objective truth?
Are you so blind to your own inevitable subjective biases?

Even if we disagree, I still appreciate your perspective on many other things. :)

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Hi Choyo Chagas,

Which sock drawer ddi you come out of?

Using all lower case was too much.