Christian Jesus versus Mormon Jesus

[_Mittens]

The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70)

http://youtu.be/tkMY88DZcGU

I’m confused since Christian believe the Same Jesus the Book of Mormon teaches and the Bible, how does this Jesus different from the Mormon Jesus

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;


3 Nephi 11:17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

3 Nephi 19:
18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

2 Nephi 10:3
3 Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.

2 Nephi 25:29
And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

Jesus is God above all, our Lord and God, God from Eternity, the Most High God and the eternal God according to the Book of Mormon

Jesus Stripped his equality with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a slave.

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

9 “For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9

Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.

http://i.imgur.com/PwTqeXg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rD4KPFD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pRPcb2X.jpg

[_Mittens]

The Jesus of the Bible and the Creeds

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

Philippians 2 tells us that Jesus gave up or didn’t cling or retain his equality with God [ Father and Holy Spirit ] but laid aside his power as the Almighty GOD who created everything we see and can’t see.

Col 1 : 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handywork.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

2 Cor. 8:9 “For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.”

2 Cor 8 tells us Jesus gave up all his wealth as the Almighty God and became poor , so poor he was born to parents who could not afford a place for him to be born.

Luke 9:58
And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Yet Jesus was obedient to his parents, who could only afford turtle doves for a sacrifice at the temple.

Luke 2: 51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.

So Jesus with all the happiness and joy he had on his Almighty throne in heaven gave that up for the shame of being tortured and killed on the cross who knew no sin himself but sacrificed himself for his enemies .

This is the Biblical Jesus.

[_Mittens]

Mormonism seems more the restored religion of the Pharisees


http://i.imgur.com/jjMsbxK.jpg


http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalm ... -sect.html

[_BartBurk]

So what is your question? The traditional Jesus is the Jesus defined by the Catholic Church at Nicea that was eternally equal to the Father. I have read enough of the Church Fathers to understand that before the Catholic Church defined who Jesus was that many believed he was eternally subordinate to the Father. Prior to the Catholic Church condemning Christian Universalism many of the Church Fathers taught that eventually all would be saved. Your understanding of Christianity seems to have been defined by the Catholic Church and yet you no doubt have apostatized from its teachings. The Mormons don't seem to have made a creed about the Godhead and there is a certain degree of freedom as to how the LDS view Jesus. Of course the Mormons accept the atonement and resurrection of Jesus so I wonder if it is really important for Mormons to accept the dogma of the Catholic Church regarding Jesus that evangelical Protestants have swallowed without question. I am coming to the conclusion that arguments regarding the nature of Jesus are not as important as traditional Christians have made them.

[_moksha]

I remember hearing on that The Lost Tomb of Jesus documentary by Simcha Jacobovici that Jesus was an exceedingly common first name at the time in which the New Testament was set. Perhaps the Evangelicals are following Jesus B. Christ and the Mormon are following Elder H. Jesus Christ.

Hey, stranger things have happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MwJOnleriM

[_The Way]

The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70

I’m confused since Christian believe the Same Jesus the Book of Mormon teaches and the Bible, how does this Jesus different from the Mormon Jesus

They don't differ.... Your problem comes because you are confusing the name and person of 'Jesus' with the title of 'Christ' and it's Christology.
We both believe in the same person Jesus wihich is recorded in the Bible, we even both believe that Jesus is the only one who is the Christ (or Messiah). The difference is in how we define the role of Christ and what this title signifies, in other words, we differ in Christology.
If you go back and look at your quote, it is obvious he is talking about the title and role of Christ, not in the physical person of Jesus.
For example, I just read an newspaper article titled "that's not the same Obama I voted for".
Now you can take that two ways...
Either they are trying to say that some kind of invasion of the body snatchers occurred; or they simply meant that the the person they thought they voted for is now acting differently than how he promised he would.

You should stop getting your catch phrases from AntiMormon sites.
Because if you continue believing that the two are the same argument, it will become more of a problem for you as a nonJewish Protestant.

[_Mittens]

So what is your question? The traditional Jesus is the Jesus defined by the Catholic Church at Nicea that was eternally equal to the Father. I have read enough of the Church Fathers to understand that before the Catholic Church defined who Jesus was that many believed he was eternally subordinate to the Father. Prior to the Catholic Church condemning Christian Universalism many of the Church Fathers taught that eventually all would be saved. Your understanding of Christianity seems to have been defined by the Catholic Church and yet you no doubt have apostatized from its teachings. The Mormons don't seem to have made a creed about the Godhead and there is a certain degree of freedom as to how the LDS view Jesus. Of course the Mormons accept the atonement and resurrection of Jesus so I wonder if it is really important for Mormons to accept the dogma of the Catholic Church regarding Jesus that evangelical Protestants have swallowed without question. I am coming to the conclusion that arguments regarding the nature of Jesus are not as important as traditional Christians have made them.

If you notice the Athanasios Creed on line 33 says Jesus was inferior to the Father when he became man Jesus was equal to the Father before he became man.

[_Mittens]

Simple Obama said one thing to get elected and the opposite once elected , bad example

[_Mittens]

Simple Obama said one thing to get elected and the opposite once elected , bad example

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/LDS ... fjesus.htm

Another link that agrees with my OP

[_BartBurk]

So what is your question? The traditional Jesus is the Jesus defined by the Catholic Church at Nicea that was eternally equal to the Father. I have read enough of the Church Fathers to understand that before the Catholic Church defined who Jesus was that many believed he was eternally subordinate to the Father. Prior to the Catholic Church condemning Christian Universalism many of the Church Fathers taught that eventually all would be saved. Your understanding of Christianity seems to have been defined by the Catholic Church and yet you no doubt have apostatized from its teachings. The Mormons don't seem to have made a creed about the Godhead and there is a certain degree of freedom as to how the LDS view Jesus. Of course the Mormons accept the atonement and resurrection of Jesus so I wonder if it is really important for Mormons to accept the dogma of the Catholic Church regarding Jesus that evangelical Protestants have swallowed without question. I am coming to the conclusion that arguments regarding the nature of Jesus are not as important as traditional Christians have made them.

If you notice the Athanasios Creed on line 33 says Jesus was inferior to the Father when he became man Jesus was equal to the Father before he became man.

It doesn't take a whole lot of searching to find that many in the early church taught that Jesus was subordinate to the Father prior to his birth in the flesh. You can start here:

http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/2008/ ... hurch.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subordina ... ferenceA-3

The Trinity was a development in doctrine. That doesn't make it wrong -- it just has to be acknowledged the Church didn't fully develop this doctrine until the 4th century. Eternal subordination was the pre-Nicene view of Christ and the Holy Spirit. Eternal subordinationism still declares Christ and the Holy Spirit to be eternally God, but puts them in an inferior position to the Father. Arius went further by claiming Christ was a created being. That's when the Church stepped in to define the Trinity and at that time it declared that Christ and the Holy Spirit were always equal to the Father rather than subordinate. Origin went so far as to claim Christ was a second God who was subordinate to the Father.

Your major complaint with Mormonism seems to stem from the definition the Catholic Church derived in the 4th century. Being Catholic, I accept the Catholic viewpoint because Mother Church declared it based on what I believe to be the leading of the Holy Spirit. But the doctrine was a development, not something that was apparent from reading the Bible.