Gunnar wrote:I imagine that at least some, if not all of the FP/12 are already deeply chagrined by how stupid and bigoted they now appear in the eyes of much of the world and are beginning to realize just how stupid and self-destructive this change in policy really is, whether they have the honesty and wit to acknowledge that or not.
I wonder how the 3 newbies feel this weekend? Just a month into their new gigs and already at the epicenter of a huge PR boner.
They need to get used to it. Leading the Lord's church means you have to do at least one major “F” up a day and keep your poise and your priesthood voice. Or at least have the PR dudes and the legal dudes on speed dial.
I don't believe this as a whole. Apostles (seers, revelators, translators etc.) can not be this stupid.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Gunnar wrote:I imagine that at least some, if not all of the FP/12 are already deeply chagrined by how stupid and bigoted they now appear in the eyes of much of the world and are beginning to realize just how stupid and self-destructive this change in policy really is, whether they have the honesty and wit to acknowledge that or not.
I wonder how the 3 newbies feel this weekend? Just a month into their new gigs and already at the epicenter of a huge PR boner.
Maksutov wrote:They need to get used to it. Leading the Lord's church means you have to do at least one major “F” up a day and keep your poise and your priesthood voice. Or at least have the PR dudes and the legal dudes on speed dial.
I'm betting they're wondering when Resurrected Jesus will appear to them and save them from probably the least "spiritual" of their church experiences to date.
Here I am a very conservative person, that has recognized problems after being in for forty years. I don't personally know many people that this impacts directly, but I am able to see past that and recognized that if this causes harm to a single child it has gone to far.
Why am I still in? I have to overcome years of programming while carefully navigating the particulars of being sensitive to my family. My spouse told me the other night that the church is broken. I had no clue that she was talking about this policy. She had somehow found out about it before I had, which is rare, and surprised me. She is starting to wake up.
This policy crossed the line, and if people like my wife recognize this, the church has a very big (new) problem. I feel this is more about power than love.
I will not be silent.
We accept the reality of the world with which we're presented. It's as simple as that. ~ Christof
Gunnar wrote:I imagine that at least some, if not all of the FP/12 are already deeply chagrined by how stupid and bigoted they now appear in the eyes of much of the world and are beginning to realize just how stupid and self-destructive this change in policy really is, whether they have the honesty and wit to acknowledge that or not.
I wonder how the 3 newbies feel this weekend? Just a month into their new gigs and already at the epicenter of a huge PR boner.
I am sure the essay department is hard at work...
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
I'll just add here to what Dr. Shades is saying, by saying this:
All the church is doing is legislating and codifying its propaganda.
It can't do it through the courts, or the laws of the land.
Since they can't abolish homosexuality, they did it the only way they knew how.
By making it gospel doctrine. It's official, and no one has to second guess its stand on the matter.
It will disenfranchise a whole new generation of up and coming Mormons however. I predict that as a result of this move is going to leave the church in shambles.
It did it to itself. Ex-Mormons of the world just gets to sit back and watch it unravel. I think I'm going to enjoy this show a whole lot more than the Book of Mormon play on Broadway.
I agree with Shades that the LDS Church knows what it is doing here. What it is doing, however wrongheaded and hurtful it is, is designed to prevent the Church being forced to accept gay marriage. By making gay marriage and cohabitation apostasy, then anyone who accepts these things is an apostate, but the explicit incorporation of this idea into the theology buttresses the Church's claim that their position is a matter of religious freedom, and the government would be violating the Constitution by infringing on the Church's right to practice its beliefs. Unlike polygamy and discrimination against blacks, however, the war against gay marriage brings together a lot of religious allies who will help give the Church cover to hold out against government pressure to change. This war will continue, and the Church's move with this policy change is part of its larger strategy.
But, yes, the Church does want to make people choose between obedience and departure. It can't enforce this choice perfectly, but it certainly brings the issue to a head for very many people.
As for Prester John's usual red herrings, it is perfectly possible for the 15 apostles and their lawyers to come up with complex and canny strategies regardless of President Monson's mental health. There is no contradiction, and the decision is nevertheless so doctrinally wrongheaded that I think the argument can be made that the leadership LDS Church, and anyone who supports this policy, has entered into apostasy.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Starbuck wrote:Here I am a very conservative person, that has recognized problems after being in for forty years. I don't personally know many people that this impacts directly, but I am able to see past that and recognized that if this causes harm to a single child it has gone to far.
Why am I still in? I have to overcome years of programming while carefully navigating the particulars of being sensitive to my family. My spouse told me the other night that the church is broken. I had no clue that she was talking about this policy. She had somehow found out about it before I had, which is rare, and surprised me. She is starting to wake up.
This policy crossed the line, and if people like my wife recognize this, the church has a very big (new) problem. I feel this is more about power than love.
I will not be silent.
Hi, Starbuck, and welcome to MDB.
I have emphasized one sentence of your post in particular. Friday night, in the staged Q&A by Otterson, Apostle Christofferson claimed that the FP/12 don't "practice mind control". You mentioned years of programming (to which I can attest occurred during my formative years being BIC, raised in a TBM household, etc.). I'm not so sure Christofferson was lying so much as showing off just how out of touch he and the other 14 are about what they and the LDS Church generally do to people.
I am glad you will not be silent, and support the fact that you need to carefully navigate these newly treacherous waters, remaining sensitive to your family members. Good luck!
Kishkumen wrote:Unlike polygamy and discrimination against blacks, however, the war against gay marriage brings together a lot of religious allies who will help give the Church cover to hold out against government pressure to change. This war will continue, and the Church's move with this policy change is part of its larger strategy.
I think that the fight will continue, but I also think it is known now how the eventual outcome of the war will be. Institutionally, they need to find an Appomattox sooner rather than later.
Or at least have the PR dudes and the legal dudes on speed dial.