Tobin wrote: members supposedly joined the LDS Church because God told them to. I think leaving the LDS Church over political correctness seems like a rather silly reason in light of that.
You are making blanket judgements on people you don't even know. I would guess that many who have resigned, including me, we baptized when they were eight years old. At least for me at that age I didn't know else besides Mormonism, and because of this I do not believe that I was accountable.
BTY, why do you care. You have said before that you don't believe the church's claims. Do you just post this stuff to argue?
Tobin wrote:You are right. I don't know why many of these members joined the LDS Church. However, given how easily they left the LDS Church it seems pretty clear they joined for frivolous reasons since they are leaving over something equally frivolous. The LDS Church has NEVER been a welcoming institution for gay people. The fact that certain members are just waking up to that fact and giving up decades of membership over this is extremely humorous. Now, you might think I'm an asshole for pointing out the obvious. But you have to be joking if you really expect me to take this seriously.
Once again you are making assumptions. You have no clue how easy or hard was for people to leave.
Tobin wrote: members supposedly joined the LDS Church because God told them to. I think leaving the LDS Church over political correctness seems like a rather silly reason in light of that.
You are making blanket judgements on people you don't even know.
I am? Which facts do you think I'm making blanket judgments about exactly that aren't as I described them?
sunstoned wrote:I would guess that many who have resigned, including me, we baptized when they were eight years old. At least for me at that age I didn't know else besides Mormonism, and because of this I do not believe that I was accountable.
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
sunstoned wrote:BTY, why do you care. You have said before that you don't believe the church's claims. Do you just post this stuff to argue?
I'm not aware of anyone posting in this thread that actually believes LDS Mormon claims. Is that the new standard for being able to discuss it?
Last edited by Guest on Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
sunstoned wrote:Once again you are making assumptions. You have no clue how easy or hard was for people to leave.
I am? If they are really struggling with this and are actively seeking a resolution, I would think resigning wouldn't even be on the table just after the policy was announced. Seems like petulance is the only thing on display here.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Jesse Pinkman wrote:Wait--I don't have YOU on ignore. I like you! Always have.
Tobin is who I have on Ignore. Ever since his post about space aliens, etc. He is just too "out there" for me to read. And now, his trolling only makes things worse.
And yet I'm still a member of the LDS Church. I wonder who is "out there" really?!?
You believe the LDS church is a man-made institution and you are still a member and are criticizing people for leaving? Do you realize how pathetic and weak that makes you?
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:You believe the LDS church is a man-made institution and you are still a member and are criticizing people for leaving? Do you realize how pathetic and weak that makes you?
I am also a member of the NRA. And I would criticize someone for leaving it over gun control.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
I've only lived in Utah for about 5 years but have been a member since I was 8. I have to say that being active in church was a lot easier for me when I didn't live here. I don't have any testimony problems, but Utah is a weird place, both within and outside of the church. Luckily I'm moving in a couple of months. The people who live in Utah need to lighten up - I've never seen such intolerance of other's beliefs in my life. If you are in the church accept people who aren't. If you aren't in the church accept people who are. Your lives will be better. Trust me.
I strongly suspect that people's personal opinion of Tobin have caused them to reject his points out-of-hand without considering their deeper implications. Perhaps his abruptness played a part in that. As for me, I think that just under the surface of his words are some very conversation-worthy implications. Let me explain:
I've read many declarations of departure from members who say they can't remain part of an organization that would single out children this way (or some other variation of this theme). Fine, but I have yet to see any such declaration include something like, "A policy that would single out children this way constitutes stronge evidence, to me, that this church isn't being led by Christ and therefore isn't a true church."
In other words, all the leave-takers do so because they disagree with the policy. Never have I seen any of the recent leave-takers do so because the church is not true. It's like they're leaving while continuing to believe that the church is true. Hence Tobin's point that they're doing it as some sort of protest and not out of a newfound conviction that the church isn't true (right, Tobin?). This runs counter to the reasons why they joined in the first place (believing it's a true church, not because of enthusiasm over its policies).
Sure, if the church is false, then there's no such thing as an illegitimate reason to leave. But if someone believes the church really is God's, and its teachings are really true, then is resignation over the new policy anything other than a form of protest? And if it's only a form of protest, is it really worth forfeiting godhood?
If this is really what Tobin is getting at--and correct me, Tobin, if I'm wrong--then I can't say I disagree with his thinking here.
Your thoughts?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
I think that there are some that might yet adhere to a belief that the LDS Church in SLC is Jesus' one and only true church, with the only authoritative offering of ordinances that are necessary for becoming a god too, but are leaving out of protest. It has been said many times on this board by several, myself included, that if the LDS teachings are true, then count me out. Mormon Jesus is stunted morally, and has fallen beyond mankind's collective moral development. If Mormon Jesus can't pick leaders for his church that have courage and integrity, what's 'eternal life' with Mormon Jesus worth?
While I think that some may be leaving in protest, yet professing their belief in the LDS truth claims, I suspect that their subconscious mind is working in overdrive to try and sort this all out. These leavers might not realize it yet, but despite their vocal statements to the contrary, they have likely already departed from the believing part of it. They value, after all, treating other humans with dignity over the slim chance that the LDS truth claims being right and their godhoods depending on them staying with the homophobic LDS institution.
